Reposting this subject for archival purposes for current/aspiring authors to reference regarding what the SFF publishing field was like circa 1985 for new/established authors, and what has changed/not changed since 1985.
And mother-f***r, looks like I am unable to escape mentioning Steven Brust again (f**k off forever SKZB).
Scanning forward, mid July 1985 Brust posts:
"I've been asked to supply information about what a plot outline
consists of, as in, what one might send the editor of a publisher.
It has been suggested that I do so on the net rather than by mail."
(Steven Brust plot outline has been added to the very end of this post).
The "advice for a new author" request
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 85 17:42 CDT
From: Patrick_Duff <pduff%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa>
Subject: Wanted: Publisher and Editor reviews
I will soon be contacting a publisher with a story outline and a
few chapters of an SF book I am writing; I am also considering
submitting a short story to one of the SF magazines. Does anyone
have any advice concerning which publisher an unknown author should
contact? How much difference could it make if I waited to submit my
book material until after I've had a short story or two published
somewhere? I'm interested in both positive and negative reviews of
publishers and magazines (or magazine editors). Please give the
source of your information if possible (first- hand experience, from
a magazine or fanzine article, heard at a convention, etc.).
regards, Patrick
------------------------------
The responses
------------------------------
From: lzwi!psc@topaz.arpa (P.S.CHISHOLM)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Publisher and Editor reviews
Date: 22 May 85 17:44:32 GMT
pduff%ti-eg.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa writes:
> Does anyone have any advice concerning which publisher an unknown
> author should contact?
In the November 1984 SCIENCE FICTION CHRONICLE's Market Report,
Bluejay says, "Only looking for published authors". Donning/
Starblaze says, "Willing to review material by new authors": is that
supposed to be encouraging or discouraging? (No matter, this
month's SFC would seem to indicate they haven't been publishing as
fast as they're buying, anyway.)
ALL of the other major publishers will buy a good novel. If you and
Asimov sent them good novels on the same day, they'd buy both.
(Note that for a novel, you should send a query with an outline and
sample chapters, *not* the whole novel. You don't even need to have
the novel finished.)
> How much difference could it make if I waited to submit my book
> material until after I've had a short story or two published
> somewhere?
A dozen stories, published mostly in a single magazine over a period
of a few years, *might* make a difference. However, most book
editors don't read SF magazines. Don't wait.
As to advice on what magazines to submit to: send your stories to
the places you'd like to be published in. ASIMOV'S is pretty
clearly the most respected magazine in the field today. ANALOG is
hungry for stories, especially but not exclusively hard SF. F&SF is
a bit slow. AMAZING seems to be barely surviving, but responds
promptly, and is better than most magazines at giving you some
comments on what's wrong. PLAYBOY and OMNI don't buy much fiction.
There are some other small magazines, too, and original anthologies
looking for stories on a given topic; check market reports in SFC or
LOCUS.
Keep your manuscripts moving. One trick I've discovered is to
address the "next" pair of envelopes when you address the first.
For example, when you type up the envelopes to ANALOG, also type up
a pair to AMAZING. Then, if the manuscript happens to come back,
stuff it RIGHT AWAY in the next set, ship it out again, and prepare
another set. Don't wait for one story to sell before starting (or
even submitting) the next one. If you don't have a next one, write
it.
For more information: SFC and LOCUS are valuable sources of
information, not the least being the occasional Market Reports.
WRITER'S MARKET describes manuscript mechanics, e.g., self-addressed
stamped envelopes, a guide to estimating postage, suggested waiting
times and pay scales. Once you've sold you first story, you can
join the Science Fiction Writer's of America, which has a Handbook
and a newsletter.
Good luck!
-Paul S. R. Chisholm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 85 01:32:44 PDT
From: lah%ucbmiro@Berkeley (First Lieutenant Leigh Ann Hussey)
Subject: Re: Publisher & Editor Reviews...
>(Note that for a novel, you should send a query with an outline and
>sample chapters, *not* the whole novel. You don't even need to >have
the novel finished.)
Sorry, but that's a bad piece of advice. I only hope that you haven't
taken it already and suffered an unnecessary rejection. When you have
five books or so out, then you can start thinking about sending
outlines. Most of the writers I know, however, sent their first
novels complete. When an editor knows for certain what he/she is
buying from you, ie, will it sell, they won't care (much) what it's
about. James Hogan said (Baycon '85) that the only myth-making he
does these days is in the writing of his outlines; the subsequent
stories sometimes come out very differently. Hogan, however, is an
acknowledged seller. In addition, he sent HIS first novel in
complete. Meanwhile, an editor can't be sure of what he/she's getting
on the basis of an outline and a few chapters unless he/she's seen
your work before. Send the whole thing, with return postage (unless
you don't want it back), and hope for the best. I'm marketing my
first novel, too. (By the way, the above commentator was right about
stories -- having a short story of my own out does not seem to have
made much difference; what HAS is going to conventions. Know your
editors and colleagues-to-be, get your face seen and your work heard
-- in that case, having a prior short story or two published is good,
as it gets you into cons as a guest and you can meet more people that
way).
Leigh Ann Hussey (lah@ucbmiro.BERKELEY (horatio@ucbmiro.BERKELEY)
------------------------------
From: lzwi!psc@topaz.arpa (Paul S. R. Chisholm)
Subject: Re: selling your first novel
Date: 30 May 85 17:47:13 GMT
> From: lah%ucbmiro@Berkeley (First Lieutenant Leigh Ann Hussey)
>>(Note that for a novel, you should send a query with an outline
>>and sample chapters, *not* the whole novel. You don't even need
>>to have the novel finished.) > Sorry, but that's a bad piece of
advice. I only hope that you > haven't taken it already and suffered
an unnecessary rejection. > When you have five books or so out, then
you can start thinking > about sending outlines. Most of the writers
I know, however, sent > their first novels complete. When an editor
knows for certain > what he/she is buying from you, ie, will it sell,
they won't care > (much) what it's about. > > Meanwhile, an editor
can't be sure of what he/she's getting on the > basis of an outline
and a few chapters unless he/she's seen your > work before. Send the
whole thing, with return postage (unless > you don't want it back),
and hope for the best. I'm marketing my > first novel, too. (By the
way, the above commentator was right > about stories -- having a short
story of my own out does not seem > to have made much difference; what
HAS is going to conventions. > Know your editors and
colleagues-to-be, get your face seen and > your work heard -- in that
case, having a prior short story or two > published is good, as it
gets you into cons as a guest and you can > meet more people that
way). > > Leigh Ann Hussey
As the poster of that advice, I bow to your superior experience. The
idea that going to cons and meeting editors helps sounds especially
right.
-Paul S. R. Chisholm {pegasus,vax135}!lzwi!psc {mtgzz,ihnp4}!lznv!psc
------------------------------
From: duke!crm@topaz.arpa (Charlie Martin)
Subject: Re: Publisher & Editor Reviews
Date: 31 May 85 16:24:24 GMT
>From: lah%ucbmiro@Berkeley (First Lieutenant Leigh Ann Hussey)
>>(Note that for a novel, you should send a query with an outline
>>and sample chapters, *not* the whole novel. You don't even need
>>to have the novel finished.) > >Sorry, but that's a bad piece of
advice. I only hope that you >haven't taken it already and suffered
an unnecessary rejection. >When you have five books or so out, then
you can start thinking >about sending outlines. Most of the writers I
know, however, sent >their first novels complete.
At the Editor's panel at Disclave last weekend, the editors all agreed
that they would consider an outline *first*, over a complete
manuscript, and that they by far prefer to see outlines over
manuscripts.
Now, if you are a new writer, the response to your outline may be
"sounds good, can I see the whole manuscript when it is available?"
For some non-obvious reason, I forgot to put the editors's names into
my notebook, but they were from several big name companies like
Berkely.
Charlie Martin
(...mcnc!duke!crm)
------------------------------
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From: hyper!brust@topaz.arpa (Steven Brust)
Subject: plot outlines
Date: 16 Jul 85 22:30:39 GMT
I've been asked to supply information about what a plot outline
consists of, as in, what one might send the editor of a publisher.
It has been suggested that I do so on the net rather than by mail.
Okay. I've never done an outline in this form. I have seen one or
two that have gone to editors, and seen the resulting books. In
general, there is little or no relationship between the outline and
the book that I have seen.
The outline is usually in the form of one paragraph per chapter, and
describes the basic action of that chapter. As in, "Chapter One:
Zwiggle, an adolescent of the dominant race of planet Juju IV,
discovers a strange being, actually a young, adolescent Earthgirl
from an exploratory vessel. He immediatly falls in lover with her,
kills her, and eats her for dinner. Chapter Two: Zwiggle begins to
wonder if he should have eaten her. His best friend, Zwaggle,
convinces him to try to find the rest of the aliens and they set off
to..."
That kind of thing.
Insofar as I've been able to determine, the outline exists so that
the editor, who has already decided to buy the book because he likes
your intense, Hemmingway-esque style (especially during the
cannible-procreation scenes) can have something to wave at the
publishing committee so they will do what he wants them to (either
agree to publish it, give the author more money for it, make it a
lead title, whatever).
My experience is EXTREMELY limited, so don't take any of this as
gospel. There may well be publishers who pay attention to the plot
outline, or use it to decide whether or not to buy the book, etc.
For more information, I would suggest asking David Dyer-Bennet
(whereever on the net he is) to please as his lovely and talented
wife, Pamela Dean, to tell us about her experiences.
That's the best I can do. Hope its some help.
-- SKZB
------------------------------
originally posted August 23th in the SomethingAwful forums Science Fiction Fantasy Megathread 3
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