SFL Archives Volume 21a readthrough

 SFL Archives Volume 21a

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100% completion, 312 bookmarks

Movies, television shows, etc referenced: FOREVER KNIGHT (tv-series), CITY OF LOST CHILDREN, BATMAN AND ROBIN, SCREAMERS, SEAQUEST DSV (tv-series), EARTH 2  (tv-series), HYPERNAUTS (tv-series), BABYLON 5 (tv-series), SPACE ABOVE AND BEYOND (tv-series), AMERICAN GOTHIC (tv-series), HIGHLANDER THE TV SERIES, THE SENTINEL (tv-series), LAWNMOWER MAN 2, STARSHIP TROOPERS 1, 12 MONKEYS, GENERATION X, SPELLBINDER, SPACE CASES (tv-series), CONTACT, THE OUTER LIMITS (tv-series), NOWHERE MAN (tv-series), STAR COMMAND, SLIDERS (tv-series), THE WANDERER (tv-series), THE SECRET WORLD OF ALEX MACK (tv-series), MARY REILLY, MUPPET TREASURE ISLAND, GHOST IN THE SHELL, LIQUID SKY, ALIENS IN THE FAMILY (tv-series), JOURNEY TO MARS, INDEPENDENCE DAY, STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE (tv-series), STAR TREK: VOYAGER (tv-series), KINDRED: THE EMBRACED (tv-series), THE OSIRIS CHRONICLES, HACKERS, POLTERGEIST THE TV SERIES, HYPERNAUTS (tv-series), THE ODYSSEY (tv-series), PETER JACKSON'S KING KONG, A.P.E.X., WITHOUT WARNING, ALIEN 4 RESURRECTION, COAST TO COAST (radio),  SALVAGE ONE (tv-series), SUPERNOVA, THE CRAFT, BARB WIRE, CASABLANCA, DRAGONHEART, MARS ATTACKS!, DOCTOR WHO: THE TELEVISION MOVIE, MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000: THE MOVIE, THE WIND OF AMNESIA, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE 1996, THE ARRIVAL, DARK SKIES (tv-series), THE PRETENDER (tv-series), ANNIHILATOR, CRASH, JAG (tv-series), PRISONERS OF GRAVITY (tv-series), ISLAND OF DR MOREAU, THE PHANTOM, UFO (tv-series), BLAKES 7 (tv-series), RED DWARF (tv-series), LA JETTE.

SF&F stories referenced: CETAGANDA, STONE OF TEARS, THE REALITY DISJUNCTION, SAGA OF RECLUSE, THE BLOODY RED BARON, PROTEKTOR, SEA WITHOUT A SHORE, FIRE UPON THE DEEP, THE KILLING STAR,SFBC SFF ENCYCLOPEDIA, THE SHEEP LOOK UP, DJINN RUMMY, HEADCRASH, SONG OF GAMBLER PHAID, THE PSALMS OF HEROD, THE MURDERED SUN, THE ETERNAL MERCENARY, EXCESSION, USE OF WEAPONS, DISTRESS, REPLAY,ASSASSINS APPRENTICE, ROSE MADDER, MAGNIFICAT, THE LIGHT OF OTHER DAYS, SWORD OF BHELEU, QUEEN OF ANGELS, STARTIDE RISING, MIDSHIPMANS HOPE, OATHS AND MIRACLES, ANUBIS GATES, BLUE MARS, ASHES OF EDEN, THE DIAMOND AGE, INTERFACE, CLIPJOINT CONFUSION, LOST WORLD, BRANCH POINT, WHEN HEAVEN FELL, TWO CROWNS FOR AMERICA, THE DISPOSSESSED, GUN WITH OCCASIONAL MUSIC, THE DAY IS NIGHT, STATUS QUOTIENT: THE CARRIER, WEREWOLVES OF LONDON, MR ADAM, HOLE IN THE HOLE, HALF THE DAY IS NIGHT, CHINA MOUNTAIN ZHANG, THRESHOLD, THE BLUE STAR, RESURRECTION MAN, DRAKON, DRAKA, REUNION ON NEVEREND, AMTRAK WARS, SALMON OF DOUBT, FIREFLY, GLORY, GOD-MAN, GLITTERING STONE, THE MACE OF SOULS, RICHTER 10, WIZARDRY UESTED, WILDSIDE, THE STAR FRACTION, A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ, FORAGERS, THE FACES OF SCIENCE FICTION, PRIMARY INVERSION, ORCA, GREEN EYES, ENDYMION, PROCESSING THE SIMILACRA FOR FUN AND PROFIT, STRIKING THE BALANCE, DOOMSDAY BOOK, THE MOONHARE, A MAN BETRAYED, BEGGARS AND CHOOSERS, INFERNO, SECRETS OF THE WITCH WORLD, KILLER STAR, THE TWO GEORGES, REMNANT POPULATION, THIS IS THE WAY THE WORLD ENDS, THE WINE OF VIOLENCE, KEEPERS OF THE HIDDEN WAYS, THE HACKER AND THE ANTS, HOT SKY AT MIDNIGHT, MISTRESS OF MISTRESSES, TIGANA, VIDEO STAR, OF THUD AND BLUNDER, GRAVITY, HARM'S WAY, DRASTIC DRAGON OF DRACO TEXAS, MARTIAN DEATHTRAP, ASSEMBLERS OF INFINITY, ENCOUNTER WITH TIBER, HONOR AMONG ENEMIES, CONSIDER PHLEBAS, CITIES IN FLIGHT, MERIDIAN DAYS, RINGWORLD THRONE, RESUME WITH MONSTERS, THE TIME SHIPS, CELESTIAL MATTERS, LEFT TO HIS OWN DEVICES, HISTORICAL CRISIS, THE TERMINAL EXPERIMENT, WITCHES OF KARRES, GENETIC SOLDIER, DEMON IN THE SKULL, PIRATES OF THE UNIVERSE, MUSHROOM PLANET, THE GUNSLINGER, NIFFT THE LEAN, THE CHOSEN, EYE OF ARGON, THE UPLIFT WAR, THE FORTUNATE FALL, JUSTICE CITY, EDGEWORKS: THE COLLECTED ELLISON VOL 01, PANDA RAY, THE LITTLE COUNTRY, ALWAYS COMING HOME, THE GREAT DIVORCE.

Pop culture references: a pre-Internet fame Harry Knowles starts posting to the SFL Archives, a pre-Internet fame Mr Skin starts posting to the SFL Archives, Famous Monsters of Filmland magazine, Compuserve Science Fiction and Fantasy Literature Forum, the Del Rey Internet Newsletter, the Slim Jim Racing Team, Society of Combustion Engineers, the alternative convention newsletter WRATH OF GHU at Evolution Con 1996, Milli Vanilli lip-synching at concerts, the New Hackers Dictionary, Lurkers Guide to Babylon 5, listening to Art Bell's COAST TO COAST, as "accurate as a SCUD missile". 

Technology callbacks: Solaris 2.5,USEnet newsgroups, Ziff Davis Net, GEnie, multi-user HERETIC + DOOM + WING COMMANDER 4, RealAudio, the Nintendo 64 version of STAR WARS: SHADOW OF THE EMPIRE, Windows 3.1, Casio QV-10 digital camera, Laser Printers, Microsoft Access, whatever a "salami scam" is in the novelization of the 1995 movie HACKERS, the various Rainbow cover colored publications of the NSA & the DOD, Altavista Internet search engine and DejaNews, book publishers saving money by using huge oversized type fonts for Hardcover editions of SFF novels so the same printing films can be reused for the paperback editions.

1996 Death notices: Walter Michael Miller Jr, SFF author. Brian Daley, SFF author. Bob Shaw, SFF author. Elsie Wollheim, co-founder of DAW Books and SFF Futurian founding member. Jon Pertwee, film/stage/tv/radio/3rd DOCTOR WHO actor.

SFL requests/discussion topics:

> Not for Kids! (SFF material)

> 1996 Hugo Award nominations

> Re: Gordon R. Dickson

> Re: Foundation series - so what's the big deal?

> Re: Whatever happened to author "Steven Boyett"?

> Chapter House Dune: anyone understand it?

> Re: Heinlein's books

> Drakon (Stirling) question--extremely minor spoilers

> Re: Firefly (P. Anthony)

> Re: Banks: Mandate for SC?

> Re: Darkover novels

> Re: 12 Monkeys Ending (Spoiler) "insurance"?

> Re: A Canticle for Leibowitz

> Re: H. Beam Piper stories

> Re: Donaldson: Thomas Covenant Series

> WHY THIS WILL BE MY LAST MINICON

> MINICON 1996 Drama

> EVOLUTION CON 1996

> Roland Castle vs the World

> Re: Metropolitan magic (was Re: Walter Jon Williams)

> Glen Cook Black Company: questions about the Taken

> Re: What is it about Tigana?

> Re: Voyager shuttles fleet!

> Re: Con trends

> MAY: A list of Current Fanzines

> Re: Maureen Birnbaum

> George Alec Effinger on why his novel GRAVITY hides it's New Orleans setting.  

> Re: [FANHIST} Changes in Fannish Culture

> Re: Banks Consider Phlebas -- what does the title mean

> Boulle's Other Books?

> Re: What the hell happened to Barry Malzberg?

> Re: Alfred Bester: His later books 

> Re: (C.S.) Lewis redux

> Re: Tarzan(?!?) of Mars

-First mention of DOOM the 1993 FPS game having a movie adaptation in the works.

(2021 note: The DOOM movie would eventually come out in 2005.)

-<U616@wvnwm.wvnet.edu> makes a joking not joking plea for the UNABOMBER to bomb the NBC Studios buildings in California for the terrible crime of NBC having greenlit and aired episodes of SEAQUEST DSV, and EARTH 2.  

-SFF magazines ANALOG & ASIMOV's SCIFI along with Alfred Hitchock Mysteries, Ellery Queen Mysteries and every other magazine published by Dell gets sold to a holding company called Penny Press.

-Multiple conflicting reviews of Magnum Opus Con 10a. Some people attended it just for the raves and house parties and the extreme adults only content, others attended MOC10a for the SFF convention elements.

(2021 note: I looked up MOC10a because it was full of extreme drama and skeeviness. MOC10a's organizer had a Donald Trump addiction to attention and had a death grudge vs Ed Kramer and vs DragonCon. Fancyclopedia has informed me that Ed Kramer, one of the founders of DragonCon, has been a convicted sex offender since 2000.)

-A tv movie called SPACE COMMAND produced by Melinda Snodgrass, and virtually everyone in the SFL Archives busts on the many manyterrible bits in it like the hackneyed dialogue and the good/evil color coding setup, and oh yeah a really badly miscast Morgan Fairchild who was mainly notable in STAR COMMAND for her skintight clothing and multiple outfit changes.

-A very very special SFLer re-posts George RR Martin's comments on SLIDERS the tv-series vs GRRM's never-picked up tv-series pilot DOORWAYS from GEnie. tldr version: GRRM is extremely not-mad about SLIDERS existence and is considering lawsuits. 

(2021 note: GRRM was extremely mad about SLIDERS existence and I will repost GRRM's comments in a standalone post. The SFLer who reposted GRRM's comments is Gharlane of Eddore, a "get off my SFF lawn/screamer at clouds" contrarian who loves GRRM so much I have now started thinking Gharlane is a sock-puppet account of GRRM or that Gharlane is Chip Hitchcock, the SFL Archives first Internet troll-village idiot, posting under a new name to avoid backlash over their management of BOSKONE 24.)

-Forrest J Ackerman gives his side of the story about losing control of the FAMOUS MONSTERS OF FILMLAND SFF-Horror magazine. FJ Ackerman is extremely mad about losing control and madder about their articles in that magazine being rewritten by people who weren't even born when Ackerman was a SFF-Horror fan.

-"this is a typical cycle - male author gets old and writes bizarre sex ramblings"

-STAR WARS REMASTERED, the first clips of STAR WARS 1977 "The way George Lucas always intended it to look" start coming out and STAR WARS deprived fans are beyond happy.

(2021 note: The infamous re-cut of HAN SOLO SHOT FIRST is not included in the teaser clips LucasFilms has been showing to journalists or big-name STAR WARS fandom publications.) 

-Lots of 1996 Convention discussion. MOC10a had the most drama and drama-causing people, MINICON 1996 had major issues, Evolution 1996 seemed chill. The surprisingly deep decisions involved in making SFF Convention badges got discussed, libertarian SFLers want all info shared including hotel name + hotel room numbers (very skeevy and worrying for female SFF fandom), others want fields for SFF names, etc. Best font sizes for badges, good long test names for badge fonts, etc. SFF guidelines for little (5 yrs old or less) at SFF conventions, Security guards being assholes and hassling SFF convention attendees, COSPLAY costume drama, etc. ROC of AGES 1996 was notable for being a entirely new SFF convention 100% funded by a SFF fan that won the lottery and featured Roland Castle throwing multiple attention seeking hissy fits.

-Establishment of the SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY HALL OF FAME, hosted at the University of Kansas, USA.

-First mention of Peter Jackson's KING KONG being in production.

-DHALGREN fans being instantly identifiable at SFF Conventions by their orchids and "other adornments".

-NO PERSON WHO GREW UP IN CANADA HAD EVER WON A HUGO OR NEBULA AWARD UNTIL THE 1995 NEBULA AWARDS.

-The flip-book animation of a spaceship exploding inside hardcover printings of HONOR AMONG ENEMIES.

-SFLer's discuss the overt references to CASABLANCA in the Pamela Anderson movie BARB WIRE.

-Extremely deep discussion of the 1996 Charlie Sheen movie THE ARRIVAL. The SFLers who hate it find fault with the technology used in it, especially the crowd-sourced satellite dish antennas, while the portion of SFLers who know radio astronomy actually liked the film and found the technology feasible and real, especially the crowd-sourced satellite dish antennas.

-David Drake delivers an ice-burn regarding SM Stirling's writing when discussing THE CHOSEN, a book co-written by Stirling and David Drake..."the point of the book was to teach Stirling how to write a book in which the bad guys *lose*", and the resemblance to the Draka was fully intentional on his part(Drake did a 20k word outline that Stirling expanded out into a novel).  

-Periodic Daniel Keys Moran discussion. Star Trek Voyager allegedly ripping off a DKM submitted spec-script. Daniel Keys Moran's literary agent that is in talks with Bantam Books suddenly switches to "Daniel Keys Moran has no relationship with Bantam Books anymore", no explanation given. Daniel Keys Moran claims to have two new CONTINUING TIME series books ready for publishing with minimal delay.

(2021 note: It would take over a decade for the next CONTINUING TIME book to be published.)  

-And finally thought I would just re-quote the following posts in full:

------------------------------

Date: 27 May 1996 19:40:53 GMT

From: djheydt@uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)

Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: Re: Banks' Consider Phlebas -- what does the title mean?

Dean K Rizer <rizer001@maroon.tc.umn.edu> wrote:

>- What does the title _Consider Phlebas_ allude to? ...

It's part of T. S. Eliot's _The Waste Land_ (1922).  Since no one else has

quoted the section, I shall:

                            IV. Death by Water

        Phlebas the Phoenician, a fortnight dead,

        Forgot the cry of gulls and the deep sea swell

        And the profit and loss.

                                  A current under sea

        Picked his bones in whispers.  As he rose and fell

        He passed the stages of his age and youth

        Entering the whirlpool.

                                Gentile or Jew

        O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

        Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

_The Waste Land,_ which is rife with explanatory footnotes, gives none for

this section.  It is foreshadowed, however, in a passage in Section I where

a clairvoyant gives a Tarot reading saying, "Here is your card, the drowned

Phoenician Sailor, (Those are pearls that were his eyes.  Look!) ... Fear

death by water.")

Now you know as much as I do; nay, rather, you know more, since I have

never been able to read Mr. Banks.

Dorothy J. Heydt

University of California

Berkeley

djheydt@uclink.berkeley.edu     

------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jun 1996 13:47:48 -0400

From: daa@seachang.demon.co.uk (David Allsopp)

Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: Iain Banks -- Excession

My, I haven't felt so smug since last year's Babylon 5 series' final

episodes were shown here first.

I've just come back from having my copy of "Excession" signed by the

author, and I even managed time for a brief chat.  Contents of chat follow,

spoilers/comments for the book itself to follow when I've read it - a

couple of days at most.  I'm paraphrasing the conversation of course, but

I'm pretty sure I'm not misinterpreting.

Me: "Given that the typical Culture citizen (hah! now *that's* an oxymoron;

     Ed.) lives about 400 years, with death being regarded as something

     that gives meaning to life (see "A FEW NOTES ON THE CULTURE",

     sf-lovers archives), how does this apply to Minds?  And drones of

     course."

IMB: "I feel that they're beings with a much longer lifespan.  I'd expect

     Minds to go away, or disappear up their own beatitude, or something,

     after about 20,000 years.  Of course, the Culture's only been around

     for about 10,000 years..."

Me: "Will we have to wait another 4 years for the next Culture book?"

IMB: "I have a contract for 2 mainstream and 2 SF, but what the SF will be

     depends on how the ideas come.  Both, one or neither could be Culture

     books.  I do find the big ships, big laser cannons and so of the

     Culture very appealing though."

Me: "Do we meet any old friends in _Excession_?"

IMB: "No, but there's always a wee reference somewhere to things that have

     appeared in other books."

Er, that's it.  The photographer arrived, and I thought of another 500

questions on the way back :-(.  Oh well, at least I get to read the book.

David Allsopp

Aran Ltd.

daa@seachang.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

SFL Archives 1996: George RR Martin on DOORWAYS vs SLIDERS the tv-series

------------------------------

Date: 4 Mar 1996 23:53:52 GMT

From: gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore)

Reply-to: sf-lovers-tv@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: "DOORWAYS," was Re: Sliders

Rtk@gnn.com (Rae-Ann) writes:

> I've seen a lot of mention of this "Doorways"; what is it?

"DOORWAYS" was a TV series that George R. R. Martin created about half a

decade back. There was a pilot film shot, and it's not bad. It's never

been aired on TV in the U.S., although it did a few movie theaters in

Europe, and has been on TV there, and is rentable on tape outside the U.S.

Here are George R. R. Martin's comments on the subject of "SLIDERS" and

"DOORWAYS."

Mr. Martin has specifically given permission for this entry to be copied on

other networks.

SFRT II RoundTable

Category 15, Topic 18

Message 244 Mon Apr 17, 1995

G.MARTIN15 [GRRM] at 22:11 EDT

I had vowed not to discuss the DOORWAYS/SLIDERS situation any further, but

a great deal of rumor and misinformation is getting passed around here, and

the more things get repeated, the more distorted they become. GEnie and the

Internet obviously function like the old game of "telephone" here, with

people paraphrasing bits of news they've heard, and the facts malforming

further with every repetition.

So... sigh... let me set some facts straight.

I have never been asked to write for SLIDERS. For obvious reasons... at

least they are obvious to _me_. My reply, if asked, would likely be

unprintable.

Tracy Torme, the writer/creator of SLIDERS, was never involved in DOORWAYS,

nor did he ask to write for the show... at least not directly. At the time

when it appeared that DOORWAYS would be on the ABC Fall 1993 schedule,

Torme's _agent_ approached me while I was visiting my own agent (we are

both represented by ICM) and said that his client had read the script,

loved the concept, and would be interesting in writing for the show if we

went to series. A mutual friend (named Harlan Ellison) has subsequently

told me that Torme says he has "never" read the DOORWAYS script and never

expressed any interest in writing for it. I have no way of knowing, one

way or the other. I have a great deal of respect for Harlan and if he says

that Torme says this, I believe that Torme says this. It was not Torme who

approached me: it was Torme's agent, speaking on behalf of Torme. I have

been in the business long enough to know that agents sometimes, well...

embroider if they smell a job.

At any rate: I was never involved in any aspect of Torme's show and he was

never involved in any aspect of mine.

DOORWAYS was pitched to the Fox network on the same day it was pitched to

ABC; at that time, the Fox execs told me they loved it, it was very

original, they'd think about it. ABC bought it before they finished

thinking. Almost two years later, when DOORWAYS was complete, we showed

the pilot to Fox after ABC chose to go with LOIS & CLARK. Fox passed at

that time. The six back-up scripts were also shown to Fox, but I have no

idea whether they read them.

DOORWAYS has been released in many foreign countries on video, but not in

the US. Nor has ABC screened it. Someone above posted that they had

scheduled it for ninety minutes but cancelled it when they realized it was

two hours long. This is _almost_ correct, except for the lengths. ABC paid

for and has the rights to telecast the ninety-minute version. They

scheduled it for a _one hour_ slot, well over a year ago, and had to pull

it. Ninety minute slots are very hard to program. A two-hour version of

DOORWAYS does exist; that is the version released in Europe, Mexico,

Australia and elsewhere on video. ABC does not have rights to that

version, as they paid only for the ninety-minute and refused to up the ante

when we ran over budget and Columbia asked them for more money.

I hope that DOORWAYS will someday be seen, but I can't say how or when.

The chances of it becoming a series are extremely remote. It pains me

vastly to say that, since I believe DOORWAYS is as good as any work I have

ever done, and had it aired, it would have bid fair to be one of the best

SF series in the history of television. The writing was damn fair too. We

had six back-up scripts ordered - a very high number, ABC was _very_

gung-ho about this show once - by some very fine writers, including Michael

Cassutt, Edward Zuckerman, and Steve deJarnett, and our lead actors were

sensational. George Newbern is a very fine and likeable young actor, as

those who have seen in FATHER OF THE BRIDE and DESIGNING WOMEN and his many

other roles can testify. And Anne LeGuernec was simply magic, a French

actress utterly unlike anyone on television. If DOORWAYS have gone, I

believe Anne would have become a major star.

SLIDERS is utterly unlike DOORWAYS in its characters, stories, tone, and

general intelligence level. SLIDERS is relentlessly dumb; DOORWAYS tried

at least to be smart. DOORWAYS had humorous moments - I believe humor is

essential in television but, we strove to be witty and quirky, and the main

thrust of the show was drama and action/adventure. SLIDERS has a lot more

humor and that humor is broader, louder, and, well, dumber. If we were

trying for a touch of Woody Allen, they are trying Benny Hill. That's a

very crude metaphor, but it gives you the idea.

They are two very different shows, but the _concept_ is pretty much

identical. Each week the lead characters travel to another alternate world.

Unfortunately, in television, concept is all. If I did a show about a pair

of FBI agents investigating paranormal activity, the characters and tone

would likely be utterly different from X-FILES, but the series would still

never get on the air, because the executives look only at the concept. In

that sense, SLIDERS has effectively killed whatever small chances I have

remaining to launch DOORWAYS... but those chances were one in a million

anyway.

I said that the concepts were "pretty much" identical. There _is_ a small

difference. In DOORWAYS, the heroes were being pursued by a bad guy from

Cat's original world. On SLIDERS, I guess they are just adventuring

around, without the pursuit element. Alas, in the judgment of people I

trust, the distinction is not sufficient to distinguish the two shows in

the minds of executives.

There is currently no lawsuit. At one point I strongly considered suing,

and a number of lawyers felt I had a good case, but I was finally put off

the thought of the time and money involved. Subsequently, I have been told

that Torme was "thinking and talking" about SLIDERS well before I did

DOORWAYS. If indeed he could produce sufficient witnesses to prove that,

he would likely win in court... and it would be wrong of me to file. If he

could not prove it, my lawyers say I would likely win. I am presently

disinclined to gamble $50,000 to $100,00 on the result.

I have met Tracy Torme only once in my life, at a panel we were both on at

the Writer's Guild. I have no idea how truthful he is. We have one mutual

friend who assures me that Torme is a "stand-up guy" who would never do

anything unethical. We have another mutual friends who thinks, well, quite

otherwise. Me, I don't know what to think.

I will go back and check and see if I've corrected all the mistatements.

If not, I'll add a few further remarks to get the facts straight. If so,

however, let this be my last word on the subject. I know that people are

curious, and I do appreciate all the support I've gotten from friends, but

I feel like a recently bereaved mother whose friends keep saying, "So,

could you tell us again how your baby died?" I will be glad to discuss

DOORWAYS, but I am sick unto death of SLIDERS. I hope it goes away soon.

GRRM

[That's the end of GRRM's comments; this is me typing again.]

I recently got to see a version of the "DOORWAYS" pilot film again.

Then I went home and dug out my tape of the pilot movie for "SLIDERS," so I

could compare them with both fresh in mind.

The difference is huge; "DOORWAYS" had a couple of very interesting,

sympathetic characters. They were well-written and well-acted. The movie

was obviously done a *MUCH* smaller budget than the "SLIDERS" pilot, but

it's something you want to see again, and you want to see more of the

characters.

Remember scripts like "MASQUES," that George R. R. Martin did for "BEAUTY

AND THE BEAST?"

Well, he'd gotten better.

Even shooting a low-budget pilot movie, under great time pressue and

stress, he'd gotten better...

"DOORWAYS" is capable of competing, on an equal footing, with material shot

on a budget vastly larger; and demonstrates what WOULD have been a

wonderful series with great imagination and potential.

Mr. Martin's comments are professional, and non-inflammatory; he does not

seek to start a flame war or a huge discussion filled with non-productive

bile and spite, because he knows that kind of negativity just doesn't get

any MORE movies and TV shows written and into production.

But having seen the two pilot movies, and looked at the dates on them; and

having seen elements of many classic SF stories, prose and script, used in

Mr. Torme's products in the past, I honestly feel that Mr. Martin has been

ill-served by his so-called "peers" and competitors. GRRM has proven, time

and time again, that he can *produce* decent material out of thin air, on a

tight budget, with original concept and treatment. The work he did with

Ron Koslow on "BEAUTY AND THE BEAST," his movie version of "NIGHTFLYERS"

(made on considerably less than the cost of most major TV shows!), the work

he did on the new "TWILIGHT ZONE..." GRRM's track record speaks for

itself.

I have respect for Tracy Torme's work, too; while invariably highly

derivative, it *is* normally competent, and I'll always be pleased at the

way he sneaked the "BlueGills" into Goddenberry's sweetness and light

universe, and steamed G.R. off so badly that we never heard of BlueGills

again... But working in the field, even working WELL in the field, doesn't

give you a license to re-write other people's work, or to market their

concepts, and from where I sit, it *appears* that's what he did...

Parallel time tracks are old-hat in SF; travel between them is a hoarily

ancient concept. But a TV series based on jumping to a new parallel world

each week, now THAT's a fairly recent schtick, and if we're to believe

Torme's agent, one that MARTIN came up with first...

------------------------------

Date: 5 Mar 1996 00:17:38 GMT

From: gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore)

Reply-to: sf-lovers-tv@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: Re: "DOORWAYS," was Re: Sliders

Just discovered I had some other G.R.R.M. comments on file, copied (with

the author's permission) over from "GENIE."

George R. R. Martin was queried on GENIE, and responded with the following,

and permission to repost it here:

SLIDERS: well, people will think what they want to think, but

let me say a few things.

A lawsuit is still an option, and will remain one for some time. I am not

proceeding right now, but I could go ahead tomorrow, or next week, or six

months from now, if I choose. I may do just that, depending on other

factors.

I am trying to purchase a large and rather expensive piece of land, as most

of you know.

You also know of the difficulties I've had there. Doing an expensive land

purchase and an expensive lawsuit simultaneously would have stretched me

pretty thin... but if the land purchase falls through, as it threatens to

do, well...

Of course, I would much prefer that SLIDERS die all by itself, and I think

the chances of that are good.

Whether or not you believe it is original, it is undeniably _awful_: badly

written, badly acted, and aimed at the lowest common denominator. Parallel

worlds for morons. If there is any vestige of taste remaining in the TV

viewing audience, SLIDERS will be gone within six episodes. It makes SPACE

RANGERS look like MASTERPIECE THEATER by comparison.

The notion of alternate worlds is indeed common in books... but _not_ in

television. Also, most alternate world stories involved a single parallel

Earth. The only previous alternate world show in TV history, the

short-lived OTHERWORLD (I _think_ that was the title) was of that nature.

DOORWAYS was designed around a format that took the characters to a

different alternate earth every week, a concept that was absolutely new for

television. I had various expert witnesses lined up to testify to that,

including network and studio executives, and even the SFRT's own Bill

Warren, with his encyclopedic knowledge of SF television and film.

SLIDERS has the same format, and its "creator" is a writer whose agent once

approached me to inquire about a staff position on DOORWAYS if it went to

series. The agent told me the writer had read my script and "loved" the

idea. Indeed he did...

So what you have is this. In the entire forty-year history of network

television, there had been exactly _one_ previous parallel world show, and

there had _never_ been a series pilot that proposed taking a set of

characters to a different alternate world every week. DOORWAYS was the

first. A year later comes a second, SLIDERS, with the same series format,

created by a writer who read the DOORWAYS script and wanted to write for

DOORWAYS. Perhaps this was purely a coincidence. I shall let the folks on

Internet make up their own minds, but I know what _I_ think.

(( OH, and for what it's worth, the Fox network was pitched DOORWAYS in the

concept stage, and were quite interested, although ABC moved faster. They

did _not_ tell me, "Oh, this is a common idea, we get variants pitched to

us every week." They _did_ say, "Wow, this is something really different

and unique, we don't have anything like this."))

------------------------------

SFL Archives 1996: Six different takes on Magnum Opus Con 10A

 ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 18:21:15 -0500

From: politico@wil.net

Reply-to: sf-lovers-misc@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: Politico's Review of Magnum Opus Con 10A

Hello out there in convention land,

In the quest to line up dealers and promote my convention, I attended

MOC-10A, held at the Adams Mark, in Charlotte, NC. I also came at the

invitation of Roland Castle, MOC's owner operator and subject of some very

spirited debate on this part of the 'net for quite some time. Roland has

been a great help to me getting my dealer database built and insight on

convention ops and so on. The convention itself was very nice, quite

friendly and inviting. The dealer's room had a great selection. Gunnar

Hansen was a neat guy. Attendence looked to be around 400-450, not

including dealers, guests, and con staff, which was not bad, considering it

was snowing on Friday afternoon. I had only planned to stay the day to get

info to dealers and hand out flyers, but within a few hours, I had met some

really cool folks, a great lady who gave me crash space with her friends

for the weekend, and I felt almost as free as I did in the Hellfire Club in

NYC, but that's another story. MOC is not a con for the kiddies, it is for

adult fans who want to cut loose and be what they want to be in their wet

dreams and fantasies. The staff was friendly and completely unobtrusive,

but reacted very quickly to trouble spots. There is but one person to

answer to at MOC, and that is Roland. It's his castle, if you will, and all

he asks is that you respect the other guests and not break the law. If you

have a problem, you go to Roland. This kind of personal touch is not the

stuff of larger types of special events, but it does go along way to

providing a sense of security and relaxation while attending his

convention.

I ended up participating in several functions, namely the Mr. Macho

contest (I came in second!!!), the slave auction, hanging from the

suspension cage at the Jim Jones play party Sat. night, the Scavenger Hunt

(which my team won!), and general becoming the stuff of legend for a first

time MOCer.

While at the con, I read up on the whole MOC vs. DragonCon thing, as

Roland published his opinions and stated the fact of what was going on in

the last issue of Fandom, as well as copies of email from people who worked

to trash his con for one reason or another. I spent a good deal of time

with Roland and got to know him fairly well. He is irascible, a bit gruff,

brutally honest in his opinions, and generally very Italian in his

demeanor. However, he never raised his voice to me or to anyone that we

were around, carried himself with respect and civility, and worked hard to

make sure everyone had a good time. If more high minded fans don't want to

be around fans who like to party, try to get laid (the number of bi's and

gay's openly embracing and having as much fun was nicely surprising), dance

their ass off to cool music, not be bothered by basement case fanboys

drooling all over them because they are the only attractive woman there,

get as close to naked as the law will allow (I went down to a T-bar in the

Mr. Macho contest and had the crowd howling), they really ought not go to

MOC. Yes, there were some educational program tracks, as every con should

have a little clean spot for the hell of it, but MOC really is a place for

wilder side of fandom.

I will not at this time go into any speculation about DragonCon or Ed

Kramer, as I have not been to DragonCon nor have I met Ed Kramer. I will

say, however, if it stands true that the effort to trash Roland and his

event behind his back is indeed openly encouraged by either Ed Kramer or

anyone associated with his event, I will never attend DragonCon, but I will

make that evaluation in my own time and through my own research. If

Mr. Kramer would like to offer me the same chance to get his side of the

story and the same chance to evaluate his convention that Roland has, I

will gladly give him the fair consideration that I have given to Mr.

Castle.

In summary, I had an absolutely decadent time at MOC, and look forward

to being able to attend MOC 11 in June. MOC is not a convention for the

whole family. It's like spending a weekend a sci-fi con that Howard Stern

would put together. It's wild, more than a little sexist (there were a lot

more MALE bimbos than female there, including me!), and generally a drunken

romp after 6pm. I got laid, got to throw knives, strip in front of 400

people, dance my ass off, hang from chains and be beaten by latex clad

mistresses, promote my convention, line up dealers, get Roland's side of

this whole pissy little flame war, and did all of this SOBER!!! Roland may

not be the most logical businessman in the world, but what he does comes

from the heart and he keeps his promises. Only one guest did not show up

for MOC-10 and Roland has survived a very seemingly concentrated effort to

smear him, because he dares to let geeks be geeks. MOC-10A was for the fans

that gave their support to Roland over the years and helped him weather

this past year of baggage. By the time of MOC-11, he will have run THREE

conventions in 11 months, so I don't think can reasonably question his

tenacity and heart for fandom. I met a lot new people at MOC and look

forward to seeing them at either my con, StellarCon 20, or MOC-11. I plan

to attend both MOC-11 and DragonCon this summer if my resources allow, to

judge both events in their prime. Of course, this is all just my opinion, I

could be wrong.

Ta ta.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 22:06:04 GMT

From: tnelson@conc.tdsnet.com (Huny)

Reply-to: sf-lovers-misc@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: Re: Politico's Review of Magnum Opus Con 10A

I was there too Pol and had the best time! What a con! I flirted my heart

out and had a weekend long blast. Roland does an excellent job and I always

make a point to tell him so at the end of MOC. He has always been high

profile in his availablity to fandom and is constantly urging us to offer

suggestions to help him give US what we want. I love Roland for his

efforts... I'm just sorry I didn't get a chance to flash him before I left!

hahaha see ya at MOC!

------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 07:19:46 GMT

From: LadcoDWB@ix.netcom.com (John P. Miller)

Reply-to: sf-lovers-misc@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: MOC-10 A -- A Retrospective

Well, I'm just now getting back to being human after MOC-10A, so here's my

review:

Arrived Thursday afternoon:

Nothing much going on. The hotel screwed up our reservations, but

quickly and efficiently fixed the problem. That was when we realized we

were staying in Rooms 664, 666, and 668. That's right, LADCO was in "THE

ROOM OF THE BEAST!" This boded well for the days to follow. Casino night

was canceled due to conflict with N.C. laws. Bummer. Also, Rocky Horror

didn't go off as planned. As I expected, Thursday was more a day to chill

and get acclimated to the hotel and staff. Checked out the dealers' room

- - small but good variety and GREAT art work!

FRIDAY:

Now things started to roll.

11am - Girls of MOC autograph session. Here was my chance to meet the

models in the Unforgettable Images magazine. GOD I can't wait for issue

#3!

Hung out with friends until later that afternoon. The Home Slave Shopping

Network had to be canceled since there were mundanes in the hotel and it

would be broadcast on convention TV.

Bought a picture of Hope at the ROC of AGEs table. In order to sell her

pics, she said if we sold all her pics for the day, she'd remove her top.

We did. She did. Saw God.

5pm - Knife throwing. If you ever wanted to flame Roland, DON'T DO IT

HERE!

7pm - MOC Marriages. Found a babe. Got married. Didn't get her name.

Oh, well. That's how it goes.

8pm - PMS Contest. Damn, Catwoman! Get over yourself! Any person who

doesn't look where they're about to stick their bare ass deserves to get it

dunked! You know men go to the bathroom drunk and in the dark, too. [g]

9pm - Bimbomania! - Not a wild as the promotion had me expecting. That

probably had something to do with the cops in the room for security.

Still, the judges did seem to have fun!

12pm - Dance 'til dawn. Awesome time and great music.

I also wandered around to various room parties until about 5:30 am. The

only problem was one party wasn't on a party floor and got shut down, but

Roland got them some room in the Convention Center and they moved the party

down to the first floor. Way to go OFMIC!

SATURDAY

Everything up to this point has been prep for Saturday.

Early afternoon- bought a picture package with Hope and Gunnar Hansen.

Same as yesterday, only today two babe would take off their tops and as a

bonus, Gunnar would keep his on! We did. They did. He didn't. Saw God

twice. Damn, how did that girl get those tits under that T-Shirt?

Had yearbook photo taken for purposes as yet unknown. Can't wait to see

what the yearbook's gunnar look like.

Slave Auction - Great opportunity to purchase a slave for 3 hours. Even

Gunnar Hansen auctioned himself off. His skill? "Good with power tools!"

Several babes and studs were auctioned off with the proceeds going to the

Party Smaller Memorial Scholarship Fund.

After getting in costume, me and my partner in the costume contest, Brian

Jones, headed down to the ballroom. Our costumes were of Darth Vader and

Obi-Wan Kenobi. It wasn't until we got to the ballroom that we found out

that the band came on stage to all their gigs to "The Imperial March."

This definitely boded well. When the band cranked it up, the crowd

frenzied as Vader took the center of the dance floor. After all was said

and done, second place went to two of my friends, Pat and Sheryl-Lynn for

their awesome Babylon 5 uniforms. The MooseCon got first prize for their

Moose thing (still not sure what it was) and Best of Show went to:

D A R T H V A D E R & O B I - W A N K E N O B I ! ! ! !

Yee-ha!!! Dancing into the night, with Vader jumping on stage to sing

Kiss' "God of Darkness" with the band.

From the Masque, we headed for the room parties. The two best parties were

Jonestown III (room 1666) and CyberGoth (room 1766). I'd been to both

Jonestown's before at MOC's 8 and 9, and III was just as great; however,

the nod has to go to CyberGoth for the awesome party. They were also the

only room party to have food as well as booze - a necessary consideration

for olympic drinking. Hope was there. She stripped. I saw God. She was

posing for polaroids. I got one. I saw God.

All this continued on until about 5 am. Bouncing from room party to room

party until you couldn't remember where you were. Woke up Sunday morning

with an incredible sense of satisfaction.

Let's see did I miss anything...

Oh, yes: Starting Fluid was a big success. One of the other room parties

was peddling some shit they called "Mech Fluid" that had dubious

ingredients. Since we started the tradition and this wasn't our mix, we

had to set things straight.

MECH Fluid is a sham!

LADCO - Inventors of BattleMech Starting Fluid, as brought to you at MOC 7,

8, 9, 10, AND 10-A. Accept no Substitutes. Further info and samples were

available in "THE ROOM OF THE BEAST". If they couldn't figure out that

meant Room 666, we didn't care to hear from them.

What else, oh yes...Pat won first prize in the wet boxer competition! Yea

Pat!

Well, that's about it. For every MOC since 6 we've noticed a phrase or

saying that keeps getting repeated throughout the weekend that tends to sum

up the week end's experience. I close with the listing of the catch

phrases to date:

MOC 6: "A-weem-a-way. It's a MOC thing, you wouldn't understand."

MOC 7: "It's a buying frenzy!"

MOC 8: "Cthulhu *hic*!"

MOC 9: "Look at me! Don't look at me!... Look at me, dammit!!"

MOC 10: "Na Naw, don't go there."

MOC 10A: "Hope schwings eternal!"

Next on the convention list is ROC of AGEs in May. I'm looking forward to

seeing Hope and all my friends from MOC. Don't miss the Shadow Players

sword fighting show!! After that - Here comes MOC 11!

See you this summer, Roland!!!

John P. Miller

LadcoDWB@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 22:20:30 GMT

From: achbar@vnet.net (James Morrow)

Reply-to: sf-lovers-misc@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: MOC it is so unique

I didn't see God in silicon Breast implants like our dear friend John

P. Miller. I did see two lovely ladies.. Hopefully, I will see them

again.

MOC 11 is shaping up to be a Good Con. hell, I don't know who will be

there. It hardly matters at this point. I will be there and so will my

friends.

MOC is a free form sort of Con anyway. You make up your own fun as you

go. There were interesting Panels at MOC 10-A. I participated in several

as a member of the audience. I asked questions and enjoyed myself.

The Parties and the Friends is what has made that con in my view. I hope

it stays that way.

Hopefully, MOC appreciation Cons will continue here in Charlotte NC. I

think it was a Great idea and hopefully Roland Castle will return to the

"Queen City" ( Named after Queen Charlotte of England). I hope he didn't

loose his shirt.

There are times when I think that man runs his Con like the captain of a

Party Yacht. He cleans the barnacles off while the rest of us Party. He

charges just enough to keep her at Sea. Hell maybe I am right, maybe I am

wrong. I had a Great time. That's my bottom Line.

James Morrow

------------------------------

Date: 23 Feb 1996 02:39:03 GMT

From: aiken@unity.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken)

Reply-to: sf-lovers-misc@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: Re: MOC 10A, My Review and Opinions

>I got to the Con early Thursday. I expected a Huge Crowd of People and

>did not want to miss anything. I was disappointed at First. Thursday was

>pretty slow. The huge Crowd I had hope to see was not there. I spent

>time meeting old friends and meeting new ones until the Dealer's Room

>opened.

EXTREMELY slow...

This leads into my first set of comments about this MOC:

PRO: The computer gaming area was one of the best I've seen yet, and I

spent a lot of time there. Stations set up for multi-user Heretic,

Doom, Wing Commander IV, plus a 2-player VR Hexen and a 2-player

full-cockpit Descent.

CON: No videos!!!! Some sort of video room, with cult/action movies,

anime, etc. is a GREAT way to kill time, see something you've never

seen before, etc.. Every other convention I've ever been to

besides MOC has had at least 1 video room running continuously.

It's a very nice con "fixture" that I've never seen at MOC.

Plus, where was the Rocky Horror? It was scheduled on both Friday

and Saturday nights in the Carolina AB rooms; but every time I

looked, it was completely empty.

>Friday was spent catching up with my old friends and again, making new

>ones. MOC is a unique kind of CON. It is pretty much a free Form kind of

>Con. Roland Take No offense. If you walk away from a MOC and not have

>fun...then it is your own damned fault. The schedule had little to offer.

>You had to make your own fun up as you went. The MOC crowd is pretty

>intelligent, so that was easy for most people.

I can understand few guests with a con this small. But, for the most part,

there were TONs of meeting rooms with absolutely nothing in them, or

nothing going on. There were little flurries of activity, then deadness.

I thought the PMS Battle and the Bimbo Contest was a lot of fun. The live

band didn't seem to draw a lot of attention, though.

>The Parties were Fun. I am in The Rogue Society and we had a Great time

>with our Party and everybody else's. I was security for our Con. Out of

>the 400 or so people who atended this Con, ONE asshole gave us a hard

>time. He was taken Care of and the we went on with Life.

They should have used the meeting rooms for the parties. In fact, on

Friday night I was at the Dead Pirate/Wet T-shirt party on the 16th floor,

when the hotel security made them close the door (party floor suddenly

becoming a non-party floor due to mundanes). I suggested that we move the

whole thing down to one of the rooms, and they did. TONS of more space

over that cramped little room made this a big hit. Then, as if that

weren't enough, the Bendovaho Tribe came in and started handing out their

brew. For a good while there, that MOC "magic" was in full swing.

Other good parties: The M00se Illuminati had a nice little room set up with

tons of sushi, chili, and MOOSE PISS! great drink.

The Jonestown After Dark III party was fun, as usual. Nothing new this

year, they had the same Grape Flavoraid and cyanide drinks, plus The

Machine was in full operation. I had a pocketfull of glow-sticks that made

a nice effect. This lasted until around 5am.

The Cybergoths on the 17th Floor, which I think is the Rogues, had one

helluva party. Nice decorations, with chill-out rooms on the side, a DJ,

some hellacious bare skin, munchies, and more. After the Jonestown party

folded, the Moose people moved their stuff to the Cybergoths.

>Will MOC 11-A come back to Charlotte NC? I hope so. The Hotel Staff

>Loved us. I hope Roland remembers this town and will see the potential

>that it has to offer in The future.

Not a bad location at all. Lots of decent food outlets in the area too.

Which leads to another suggestion for cons: do some advance scouting of the

grocery/pharmacy/food/liquor stores in the area. A neat little map could

save some out-of-towner a lot of time scouting around for supplies.

No serious grips, had a lot of fun.

slack@ncsu.edu

------------------------------

Date: 14 Mar 1996 10:02:14 GMT

From: michael weaver <mweaver@atl.mindspring.com>

Reply-to: sf-lovers-misc@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: Banned from Moc for Life

My name is Michael Weaver I am an artist, I have worked for (among

others ) Wizards of the Coast, TSR, FASA, Ral Partha, Chaosium. I am

frequently a guest at various Science Fiction conventions (I have attended

over 40 by my last estimate).

I wish to relate my experiences with Roland and the Moc convention. I

attended Moc for many years, both as a representative (and art director )

for Ral Partha and a freelance illustrator.

To put things in perspective, I had attending Moc for 4 years. Every

year I barely broke even in the art show (most other conventions, I was

making a fairly tidy profit). As Ral Partha's art director, I repeatedly

brought the company down to Moc, ( Partha barely broke even there also) and

sponsored a large number of events, often at my own personal expense.

Some years ago, Roland decided to cancel the art show. Well, I need not

tell you that the art show is the main reason for me to got to Moc. At the

time I lived in Athens (same city as Roland ) and decided to go over to his

shop and tell him in person that I regretted that I could not make it to

Moc. I gave him my explanation in a very apologetic manner and told him

that my decision was a purely financial one. I was still a student at the

time, and I really could not afford to go to a convention if there was no

art show.

Roland EXPLODED. He told me that not only could I not go to Moc that

year, but that I was BANNED from Moc forever, and that were I to show up,

that he would have me removed by the police. Further more, I was no longer

allowed into his store and that the same police removal awaited me there.

I was, to say the least, speechless.

All my past participation meant nothing to Roland. Simply by choosing to

not personally attend one year, I went from loyal regular supporting guest

to just another someone who wants to f-ck Roland over, in Roland's eyes.

------------------------------

SFL Archives Volume 20b readthrough

 SFL Archives Volume 20b

4.6 mb raw text file

100% completion, 206 bookmarks

Movies, television shows referenced: JUDGE DREDD, SPECIES 1, DARKMAN 2, WATERWORLD, STANLEY KUBRICKS A.I., LORD OF ILLUSIONS, AFTERSHOCKS, VIRTUOSITY, THE NET, SPEED 1, HELLRAISER 4, HIDEAWAY, THE AMAZING PANDA ADVENTURE, OUTER LIMITS (1990s), DOCTOR WHO, DEADLY GAMES, STRANGE LUCK, SPACE ABOVE AND BEYOND (tv series), LEGENDARY JOURNEYS OF HERCULES, XENA WARRIOR PRINCESS, TOP COPS, NOWHERE MAN (tv series), LOIS AND CLARK, SEAQUEST DSV, THE X-FILES, AMERICAN GOTHIC, W.E.I.R.D. WORLD, ALIEN NATION: BODY AND SOUL, STRANGE DAYS, HALLOWEEN 6, FROM DUSK TILL DAWN, SHOWGIRLS, STARSHIP TROOPERS 1, POWDER, GODZILLA VS THE SMOG MONSTER, INVADERS (tv series), WING COMMANDER: THE MOVIE, SCREAMERS. 

SF&F stories referenced: KALIEDOSCOPE CENTURY, WIZARDS SHADOW, SOUL OF THE LION, FAMOUS MONSTERS, INITIATE BROTHER, GATHERER OF CLOUDS, EVOLUTION, RESURRECTION MAN, STEEL BEACH, THE MOHOLE MENACE, OUT OF THIS WORLDS, HOMECOMING, RING OF SWORDS, SKIN, FATHERLAND, FLIES FROM THE AMBER, COELISTIS, DEAD MR MOZART, ROBOT CITY (book series), DHALGREN, AXIOMATIC, GREATWINTER SAGA (book series), 1945 (novel), BUTCHER BIRD, THE BASTARD PRINCE, PURAGTORY, THE BIG U, ZAP GUN, A SORCEROR AND A GENTLEMAN, THE ARMLESS MAIDEN, THE AVATAR, NEW LEGENDS, THE LAST STARSHIP FROM EARTH, SECRET IMMORTALS, LOVELOCK, GENELIAN: PLANETFALL, HITLER VICTORIOUS, RATS AND GARGOYLES, KING AND RAVEN, COMING HOME, WELL AT WORLDS END, A BREACH IN THE WATERSHED, THE RUINS OF AMBRAI, ICEWIND DALE TRILOGY (book series), PASTEL CITY, DYING INSIDE, SHOTGUN CURE, THE WEREWOLF PRINCIPLE, FIFTH HEAD OF CEREBUS, THE KO CONSPIRACY, VAMPIRE$, CINNABAR, PRISONERS HOPE, WOMAN WITHOUT A SHADOW, GUILTY PLEASURES, ISOBEL AVENS RETURNS TO STEPHNEY IN THE SPRING, MILLENIUM, THE BIG TIME, THIS PERFECT DAY, WINTER ROSE, THE SARDONYX NET, THE DEATH OF CHAOS, GRYPHON FEATHER, THE STOLEN GODDESS, THE MIRROR OF HELEN, THE PRESTIGE, CLARKE COUNTY SPACE, HUNTING WABBIT, THE AMTRACK WARS (book series), THE MISPLACED LEGION, I ASIMOV, BRIGHTNESS REEF, THE POSTMAN, EREHWON, WRACK AND ROLL, WIZARDS FIRST RULE, AMMONITE, THE LAST OF THE WINE, THE STAR FRACTION, TERMINAL FREEDOM, SPECULATIONS INC, THE GOLDEN NINETIES, D-99, FOOTFALL, IROSHI, ISLANDS IN THE NET, YOU CAN GO HOME AGAIN, STAR OF THE GUARDIAN, CITY OF BONES, ELEMENT OF FIRE, SHRODINGERS CAT TRILOGY (book series), FREE LIVE FREE, CONSIDER PHEBLAS, HEADCRASH, QUASAR, THE WITCHES OF KARRES, THE COLOR OF DISTANCE, WHAT MAD UNIVERSE?, CHICKS IN CHAINMAIL, THE GOD-FEARER, EVOLUTIONS SHORE, PHOENIX AND MIRROR, BAKERS BOY, THE BLOODY RED BARON, SHADOWS END, A FIRE UPON THE DEEP, TRUE NAMES AND THE OPENING OF THE CYBERSPACE FRONTIER, HEIRS OF EMPIRE, HISTORY OF FANNISH ART, ENDYMION, MASKERADE, FREEZE FRAMES, HOT TIME IN OLD TOWN, GATE TO WOMENS COUNTRY, BELGARATH, THE CRYSTAL STAR, CANDLELIGHT, EXILES, HISTORICAL GAMES, A SONG CALLED YOUTH. 

Pop culture references: "..our culture's Madonna-whore complex" (from a SFLer review of SPECIES 1), alt.sex.stories, a whole field of metaphysics devoted to the study of memes, the VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT, 1990's pop culture's fixation on the 1960s, BORDERS bookstores, the standard price of a paperback SFF novel being $5.99, "Minneapolis-based gothic folk-duo THE FLASH GIRLS, "van Dannikin-style cults", the Carnegie Mellon Tartan college newspaper, a cancelled 1995 (OJ) Simpson interview on NBC, GODZILLA BATTLES GAMERA IN OSAKA.

Technology callbacks: a virus protection program called GateKeeper being referenced in the 1995 movie THE NET, floppy disks, Video Toaster CGI rendering, BITNET networking, David Wingrove of Chung Kuo series co-authoring a MYST the CDROM game novelization, AOL.COM SFF web portals, the etaoin shrdlu keyboards on Linotype machines, the Martian Chronicles CDROM game. 

1995 Death notices: John Brunner, SFF author. Jack Finney, SFF author & SFF-Horror scriptwriter.

SFL requests/discussion topics:

> Baudino: series

> Roger Zelazny

> Sex in Mercedes Lackey Novels

> The amazingly weird plotlines in the JUDGE DREDD comics

> The publishing ethics of Larry Niven, Piers Anthony, etc

> L. Ron Hubbard

> Dan Simmons HYPERION series 

> David Weber/Honor Harrington

> David Wingrove/Chu Kuo defense squad posting

> SF adapted to comicbook format

> Gregory Benford works

> ???Piers Anthony??? Good Books?

> L'Engle's books banned??

> Computer Sentience

> Philip K. Dick and why's he so great?

> Nicola Griffith's AMMONITE

> What Happened to John Norman and the Gor Books

> (Larry) Niven Starter Request

> Martha Wells books

> Gene Wolfe discussion

> Harlan Ellison Vapor-books

> Sime/Gen series

> (Greg) Bear Does Not Suck 

-People start commenting on how extremely messed up John Barnes KALIEDOSCOPE CENTURY is. When the iron-gutted people of SFL Archives 1995 think a SFF story is deeply messed up, it is going to be extremely beyond deeply heavily messed up by 2021 SFF standards.

-The six dreaded words that doom many reading attempts in fiction: "I DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THESE PEOPLE".

-Throughout the history of the SFL Archives, this question has been asked more times than anything STAR WARS or STAR TREK or BABYLON 5 related.......Does anyone know what happened to David Palmer, author of EMERGENCE/Did David Palmer write a sequel to EMERGENCE?

-Periodic HONOR HARRINGTON book series discussion. Mostly notable for 3rd party hearsay of Weber having signed a 16 book contract with BAEN BOOKS sometime in late 1995, and the existence of the "DO NOT KILL LIST" for certain Honorverse side characters.

-Russian SF: A Candid Recent History explaining why most of the Russian SFF published during the 1990s is reprintings of Russian samizdat era SFF.

-DRAGON-CON 1995 & the 1995 NASFIC conventions were scheduled together to run at the same time and same site in Atlanta Georgia USA. SFLer NASFIC attendees were not prepared for the amount of games & comics at DragonCons & the lack of handicapped access, and most everyone noted the bad culture between DragonCon managed panels/artwork sales vs NASFIC managed panels/artworks. Some of the more hysterical NASFIC SFLer's swear they witnessed pornstars giving autographs in the dealers room/saw hardcore porn being sold in the dealers room. Other more stable SFLer's noted the alleged "pornstars giving autographs" were B-Movie stars and the tapes were B-Movies.

-LYONESSE aka Ermonie aka Parmenia being the legendary lost land between Cornwall UK and the Scilly Isles in lots of UK folklore & myths, which many SFF authors have implemented in their own stories. 

-WORLDCON 1995 aka INTERSECTION 1995 happens and no-one who attended it was happy. The site choosen for Intersection 1995 was a massive compromise/test to see if the bid committee behind Intersection 1995 could actually reserve a site of such a size, the site was massively handicapped unfriendly at all levels, beyond terrible Worldcon event scheduling, ultra beyond terrible placement of Worldcon events, unfriendly convention venue staff. Unfriendly security guards, hotels blocks apart, hotel party corkage fees, and the disconnect between USA style convention parties with free food and the EU/UK convention goer reactions to "free food" convention parties (hoard of vultures descending and elbows being thrown like being in a rugby match at the free food tables got mentioned hard). Finally, the Intersection 1995 management people tried shaming local aka "living in the UK" convention attendees into volunteering extremely hard during convention id signins, demotivating many casual UK SFF fans while managing to piss off a bunch of dedicated hardcore UK SFF fans. Plus something about the filk room having a superb rendition of the American Princess Cat Song.

-SPACE ABOVE AND BEYOND premieres and many SFLers post about it. SAAB is one of the vaguely remembered SFF tv-series that I have been waiting to see appear in the SFL Archives. Many SFLers tear apart the pilot episode & first two normal episodes of SAAB, pointing out various things that don't make sense. (The F-18's, non USMC haircuts, the short boot camp for pilot-commandos, the tankee clone underpeople, the viewpoint character being a massive fuckup, et). Some SFLers gradually warm up to SAAB over the fall/winter of 1995, while others continue to rip it apart. 

-Neil Gaiman headlining a COMIC BOOK LEGAL DEFENSE FUND event to fight censorship at the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco CA USA  on Halloween 1955.

-Notes on the 1995 WSFS Business Meeting Report.

-First mention of the upcoming 1996 Olympic Games to be held in Atlanta Georgia USA. 

(2021 note: Distant echoing horns played in my mind when the 1996 Olympic Games got mentioned. Wondering what the SFL Archives reaction will be to the domestic terrorist bombing of the 1996 Olympic Games and the heroization then demonization of Richard Jewell by CNN.)

-David Feintuch returns to the SFL Archives to respond to various SFLers comments on his SEAFORT SAGA series. Turns out Feintuch was massively depressed when he originally wrote the series, so he wrote what he knew and and made the main character in his SEAFORT SAGA series a massively unstable person that kept screaming at people wanting to help/stopping people from doing basic spaceship safety related things, then always pulling a "IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN!! (not to scream at people wanting to do their spacejobs)" later on. Supposedly Feintuch wrote all 4 Seafort stories at once before getting a publishing contract, and alleged Seafort was much much worse/way more unstable in the original versions of the SEAFORT SAGA stories that Feintuch wrote.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 03:39:33 -0500

From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com>

Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: Re: Prisoner's Hope by David Feintuch

Don Croyle <croyle@fwi.com> writes:

>Yes.  The foreshadowing is more heavy handed and Seafort is still having

>major self esteem problems.

 

   Seafort's self-esteem problems were so much a part of the original

writing (remember all four books were completed before the series was

bought) that it was impossible to remove it completely, even though by the

time Prisoner came out, I had toned it down considerably.

 

>One nice thing is that it's set mainly on a planet so we see more of the

>background society in general.  Looks to me like even in this world

>Seafort is considered to have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility.

 

   Absolutely.  But I never claimed he hadn't...  :) It is one of his flaws

that he can;t seem to do much about.

 

   Hope you liked it.

 

Dave Feintuch

MIDAVE@DELPHI.COM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 03:46:33 -0500

From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com>

Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu

Subject: Re: Prisoner's Hope by David Feintuch

John Peterson <jpeterso@panix.com> writes:

>I don't know what it is about these books.  The last two have been real

>depressing, but I just couldn't put them down.  Am I alone in this?

 

   Interesting... Things were not going all that well in my life when I

wrote this.  (See the preface to the Science Fiction Book Club edition for

elaboration.)  The depression, which fits in with the story, seemed quite

natural to me at the time.

 

>I think Seafort makes Thomas Covenant look like Mr. Self Esteem.

 

   Hehe.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, I DID tune down the lack of self

esteem considerably from the early versions.  He was a complete basket

case, as originaly written.  I think, though, that you'll see where all

this is headed when you read the final novel, FISHERMAN'S HOPE.  There is,

believe it or not, a reason for his feeling as he does.

 

Dave Feintuch

MIDAVE@DELPHI.COM

------------------------------

-Slight weirdness over who originally published the M John Harrison story ISOBEL AVENS RETURNS TO STEPHNEY IN THE SPRING, with Ellen Datlow offering corrections on it's published history.

-Rutgers University, hosting site of the SFL Archives mailing disables BITNET networking support.

(2021 note: BITNET was a 1980's New England regional computer network.)

-Weirdness about Allen Steele writing HUNTING WABBIT in response to fanzine criticism, and the best way to annoy Allen Steele at SFF conventions

(2021 note: Call Steele Jonathan Frakes/ask for Frakes autograph or point behind him and yell "It's Steve Brown and he's GOT A GUN!")

-XENA WARRIOR PRINCESS the TV series continues to win over SFLers initially doubtful over it. The horniness factor for Lucy Lawless keeps coming up.

-I ASIMOV revealing that Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein loathed each other personally, but kept it professional and never discussed their personal views at SFF events.

-SFL Archives reviews of David Brin's BRIGHTNESS reef bringing up references to "van Dannikin-style cults" ??

-Heavy discussion of Nicola Griffith's AMMONITE and gender roles and sexuality, etc.

-What Happened to John Norman and the Gor Books? brings up that John Norman alleged had a No Editing clause on his books published by DAW Books up until new upper management came in at DAW Books.

-"The rastafarian who becomes a death machine by eating yogurt" in Bruce Sterling's ISLANDS IN THE NET.

-Absolutely no-one being able to predict the ending in Gene Wolfe's FREE LIVE FREE from it's opening chapters.

(2021 note: I have never read FREE LIVE FREE so the mention of it's ending involving "giant secret plywood propeller-driven airplanes that have been cruising around in the upper atmosphere since World War 2" sounds utterly insane.)

-An Iain Banks interview where Iain describes the inspiration for the title and plot of CONSIDER PHLEBLAS sounds amazing, but the original link at Iain Banks website shared to the SFL Archives is long-dead.

(2021 note: Think I found the interview:  https://synergetics.io/phlebas/text/banksint02.html )

"Phelbas is the drowned Phoenician sailor in T.S. Elliot's `The Waste Land' which is my favorite poem, if you exclude Shakespeare. Not that I like what Elliot stood for, but he was a genius and `The Waste Land' is his masterpiece. Well, his and Pound's, also of iffy political leanings. I just always like the words, `Consider Phlebas'. They looked good, they sounded good. They just looked like a title somehow. I tried all sorts of titles for the story before I settled on Consider Phelbas, but they all sounded too much like Star Wars. I knew it was a weird title but I though well, if it works it'll just become right for the book. I put in the bit about the sea-change - when Horza is undergoing a Calvin-like transmogrification on top of the crashed, awash shuttle - and in a sense, the whole book is just a yarn about a shipwrecked sailor who falls in with a gang of pirates and goes in search of buried treasure, so the quote-cum-title seemed to fit, and the idea was to hint at a tragic stature to Horza and at a kind of futility." 

-Possible hearsay about Fredric Brown allegedly typing a bunch of his stories on a Linotype machine versus a normal typewriter, because allegedly that's what he was most familiar with due to his early career as a Linotype typesetter.

-SFLers start discussing THE WITCHES OF KARRES stories, and no lie, the Witches of Karres books sounds like one of the rare mil-scifi story series that aged gracefully in the decades since they first came out.

-The Ted White edited issues of Amazing and Fantastic being house-fire disasters/massively entertaining.

(2021 note: I have no damn idea.)

-GODZILLA BATTLES GAMERA IN OSAKA which is a anecdote of the body-actors wearing the GODZILLA & GAMERA kaiju suits cage-fighting during a Osaka Expo convention around the time GODZILLA VS THE SMOG MONSTER came out.  

(2021 note: GAMERA came on strong but GODZILLA won...something about the Gamera kaiju suit being really damn heavy.)

-BucConeer convention aka "Baltimore WorldCon in 1998 Inc." officially becomes a 501c(3) non-profit educational organization.

-Something about D West's (SFF artist) HISTORY OF FANNISH ART article being so outrageous that LAGOON 7 (a fanzine) spent half it's space defending/explaining the HISTORY OF FANNISH ART article.

-Organizers of the ConCom 1995 convention issue a alert to be aware of the wording in your contracts with hotels hosting SFF conventions/SFF convention venues. Aim for "24 hour use", not "24 hour access" in your contracts. ConCom 1995 also had Filksong drama.

(2021 note: My hatred of filksong & filksong chat remains strong.)

-Being published by ZEBRA BOOKS apparently being a scarlett letter situation.

-Daniel Keys Moran and his always moving goalposts of bullshit excuses. As of September 1995, DKM claimed his latest novel, PLAYERS: THE AI WARS has 30 edit notes left and expects it to be published in 1996.

(2021 note: It took until 2011 for THE AI WARS part 1 to be self-published by DKM.)

Then later on when asked why EMERALD EYES, THE LONG RUN, and THE LAST DANCER haven't been reprinted by Bantam Spectra like he said they would be, DKM moves his bullshit excuse goalposts again to now claim that Bantam Spectra is waiting until they have THE AI WARS manuscript in-hand before doing reprints, and that his literary agent is waiting to hear back from Bantam Spectra.

(2021 note: Half expecting it to turn out that DKM's wife was also his literary agent in addition to her previous jobs as a Bantam Spectra talent scout/Bantam Spectra contract negotiator/Bantam Spectra book editor.)