SFL Archives Volume 22a readthrough update 02

FL Archives Volume 22b

4.1mb raw text file

100% completion, 434 bookmarks

Movies, television shows referenced: CONTACT, LIAR LIAR, SPECIES 2, METROPOLIS 1927, MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000: THE MOVIE, EVENT HORIZON, CAPRICORN ONE,  ROSSUM'S UNIVERSAL ROBOTS (PLAY), STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE (tv-series), SLIDERS (tv-series), LEXX (tv-series), 20000 LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA (tv-series), WYRD SISTERS (tv-series), THE SHINING (tv-series), MILLENIUM (tv-series), DARK SKIES (tv-series), INVASION (tv-series), CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND, CYBORG 2: GLASS SHADOW, JOHNNY MNEMONIC, HONEY I BLEW UP THE KID, XTRO 1, XTRO 2, TWILIGHT ZONE: THE MOVIE, SUPERMAN RETURNS, LORD OF THE RINGS TRILOGY, LOST IN SPACE 1998, MY FAVORITE MARTIAN, NEVERENDING STORY 3, THE FIFTH ELEMENT, STAR TREK: VOYAGER (tv-series), BABYLON 5 (tv-series), THE ODYSSEY (tv-series), BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER (tv-series), TWISTOR, THE ARRIVAL, JURASSIC PARK 2, ALIEN NATION (tv-series), RED DWARF (tv-series), HBO'S PERVERSIONS OF SCIENCE (tv-series), STARGATE SG-1 (tv-series), THE COMPANION.

SF&F stories referenced: BEYOND THE BEYOND, TIME BREAKERS, SMALL GODS, JOHNNY AND THE DEAD, LIFEHOUSE, THE SPARROW, A HANDBOOK OF AMERICAN PRAYER, INFINITE JEST,STAR OF THE UNBORN, SOLDIER OF THE MIST, THE DARK SHORE, EXCESSION, AGAINST A DARK BACKGROUND, ROSSUM'S UNIVERSAL ROBOTS, WIZARDS FIRST RULE, DEMON RIDER, A CROWN OF SWORDS, WIZARD AND GLASS, STRATA, INTERESTING TIMES, SPARES, IN ENEMY HANDS, THE TIME SHIPS, FOUNDATIONS FEAR, IMMERSION, THE ROSE AND THE SCAPEL, MOVING MARS, 3001: THE FINAL ODYSSEY, CHILDREN OF AMARID, HELIX: GEMINI BLOOD, ASSASSINS QUEST, COUNT GEIGERS BLUES, THE SECRET ASCENSION, SHADOW RISING, REMNANT POPULATION, REDLINE THE STARS, THE GOLDEN COMPASS, PAVANE, SOFTWARE, WIZARD IN RHYME, BRITTLE INNINGS, TRADER, THE KILLING DANCE, KING DAVIDS SPACESHIP, DOGLAND, HOLY FIRE, DEATH GROUND, MENACE OF THE SAUCERS, MINING THE SKY: UNTOLD RICHES FROM THE ASTEROIDS COMETS AND PLANETS, ETERNITY ROAD, OTHERLAND, QUICKER THAN THE EYE, BROKEDOWN PALACE, FALCON, CYTEEN, FINAL ENCYCLOPEDIA, DORSAI!, DISTRESS, DHIAMMARA, PRINCE OF SUNSET, CAGEWORLD 1: SEARCH FOR THE SUN, WHEN THE GODS ARE SILENT, HUNTING THE CORRIGANS BLOOD, HELL ON HIGH, DESTINYS ROAD, WITNESS OF GOR, THE AFFIRMATION, THE MAGEBORN TRAITOR, THE SERPENT GARDEN, MAGE HEART, THE CHILD GARDEN, LADY OF AVALON, MEMORY, QUEEN CITY JAZZ, GALATEA 2.2, RED MARS, BLUE MARS, THE LOST WORLD, CARRION COMFORT, RISE OF ENDYMION, MARCHING THROUGH GEORGIA, THE BLABBER, ACORNS, THE ALCHEMICAL MARRIAGE OF ALISTAIR CROMPTON, THE IRON DRAGONS DAUGHTER, A PURSUIT OF MIRACLES, WANDERING STAR, JIPI AND THE PARANOID CHIP, BOOK OF ENCHANTMENTS, ABSOLUTE MAGNITUDE, GLOBALHEAD.

Pop culture references: the 1950's british radio comedy series the Goon Show, the Carry On movie franchise, whatever the hell  "Mark Rothko Clothing Encounter" is, Dogbert, Scott Adams & Harlan Ellison making cameo appearances in Babylon 5.

Technology callbacks: telnet vs GUI internet browsing choices, bringing a notebook laptop to a convention to catch up on usenet in convention downtime.

Death notices: Alexander Salkind, Hollywood movie producer. Samuel Mosokowitz, SFF author & editor. Lou Stathis, High Times editor-in-chief, Vertigo Comics managing director.

SFL requests/discussion topics:

>Re: Tim Powers: is Ashbless real?

>Re: why I don't like Terry Pratchett

>Re: Different versions of Metropolis 1927

>Re: Iain Banks Culture series (SPOILERS)

>Re: Michael Bishop's newest: opinions?

>Re: Names in Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

>Re: David Eddings

>Re: Pavane

>Re: Sliders (why doesn't Quinn go on strike?)

>Re: New Thomas Covenant Trilogy

>Re: Zelazny's Amber

>Re: How is Diamond Age?

>Re: Odo committed Genocide -DS9

>Re: Bujold meets Sayers

>Re: Jack Chalker

>Re: Harlan Ellison: Where to start

>Re: Is Sterling Lanier still around?

>Re: Sequel to Martin's "A Game of Thrones"

>New Gor Novel and Gor Magazine

>Re: Tim Powers Questin

>Re: Dan Simmons

>Re: Vernor Vinge

>Re: Not crazy about Tau Zero

>Who was/is the Youngest Published SF Author?

>Re: Ringworld Engineers, a daft question

>Re: Neal Stephenson SF in Forbes

>Re: A Question about Jack Vance's Work

>Re: Gene Wolfe, certain books any good?

-1997 is when SFLers start feeling safe enough online to start saying that Orson Scott Card, Dan Simmons, and Arthur C Clarke work has all sucked for a while.

-Lee Goldberg, the author of BEYOND THE BEYOND/DEAD SPACE, responds to the huge angry negative review a SFLer posted of his book. Lee Goldberg explains that he is an actual tv screenwriter/tv producer, Star Trek wasn't being parodied, the book is a satire of events he's experienced and that everyone whose real names were used in the book were asked & clued in to the contents of the book before it got published.

(2021 note: The SFL person who posted the huge angry negative review posts almost exclusively about STAR TREK tv series/is a massive Star Trek fan, so that explains their intense anger The SFL reviewer took the corrections from Lee Goldberg in good faith and everyone moved on after a day.)

-More people respond to the "Why I don't like Terry Pratchett" discussion thread offering various Young Adult novels Pratchett wrote. A smaller amount of people respond back that Terry Pratchett fails to land for them too, despite liking classic British humor things like the Carry On movies.

-Another retroactively painful in 2020/2021 comment from way back in 1997 about "It's nice to now SOMEBODY can get away with publishing novels under 250 pages. Painful because TOR Books has been getting away with charging $10-$14 for 120 page or smaller novellas since at least 2016.

(2021 note: The first time book price complaints came up in the SFL Archives was circa 1980/1981 when it was people complain commenting on the price jump from $0.50 to $1.00 for paperback books.)

-One of the first mentions of the Annotated Pratchett File website, which lists and explains more than 1300 references and obscure jokes in Pratchett's book as of 1997.

-Films mentioned in SFL Vol 22a that have been in production hell for years as of 1997: JOHN CARTER, SUPERMAN RETURNS, ENDERS GAME, SPIDERMAN, JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA, LORD OF THE RINGS

-More SFLers chime in about really enjoying Terry Goodkind's WIZARDS FIRST RULE series, especially the torture-porn elements in it.

-11 weeks of downtime for the SFL Archives mailing list caused by multiple server hardware failure events and mailing list moderator vacations/moderator sickness leave. SFL Archives Volume 22a covers 26 weeks (Jan 1 - June 30th 1997).

(2021 note: SFL Archives Volume 22a covers 26 weeks (Jan 1 - June 30th 1997). So the SFL Archives was down and unavailable to users and subscribers for roughly 42% of SFL Archives Volume 22a. No idea if outages will happen in the back half of 1997/SFL Archives Volume 22b, but do expect at least one outage event due to the past 7 yrs of SFL Archives history.)

-SFLers start commenting on Gregory Benford's habit of repeatedly whole-sale recycling previously written set-pieces by himself into new stories, and selling everything as new content. SFLer's note that the Benford written FOUNDATIONS FEAR HAS two examples of Benford recycling content: The primitive portion of FF is Benford's IMMERSION with a few name changes, and Benfords THE ROSE AND THE SCAPEL is inserted into large portions of FF with minor name changes as well.

-Philip Pullman's THE GOLDEN COMPASS comes up for discussion again.

-LEXX the SFF tv-movie/tv-series is set to premiere sometime in the back half of 1997 on cable television. 

-The 5TH ELEMENT comes out and seemingly everyone in the SFL Archives writes a glowingly positive review of it.

-BALTICON 1997 Balticon 1997 reviews mostly focus on the age of the hotel, the inconsistent no-smoking policy enforcement throughout the hotel and slightly improved handicapped access; along with convention staff willing to help out handicapped people unable to deal with the weird multi-floor art auction setup Balticon 1997 had.

-Minicon 32 convention report: Notable for a endless drum circle throughout Minicon 32, the 5-20 pounds of  meat falling from the 7th floor that almost brained a hotel guest hanging out in the convention hotel's atrium incident, and gross hygiene at open-food-buffet convention parties.

-Intervention 1997 held in Liverpool England was notable for the "Make Your Own Badge" project that other future conventions hit up for hundreds of free badges, lots of theft running from stealing of money tins from convention stands to literal breaking into and robbery of multiple hotel rooms with fire extinguishers, along with tons of SFF fandom interactions and meetup that Dave Langford's Ansible issue about Intervention 1997 probably covered in detail, and finally for teaching me a new unit of liquid measurement.

(2021 note: That new measurement being "kils/kilderkin". 1 kilderkin equals 18 gallons of liquid, 2 kilderkin equals 36 gallons, etc.

-The 1997 Sci-Fi Collectibles Show Cherry Hill NJ convention report was notable for a in-depth transcript of Gil Gerald giving commentary on his experience on the BUCK ROGERS IN THE 25TH CENTURY (tv-series). Gil Gerald preferred the 1st season vs the 2nd season of the show, mentioned his favorite episode of the show, liked Hawk the actor, related how hard it was acting vs colored lighting taking the place of to-be-created-special effects, and noted how production staff kept tweaking set design and ignoring his input on scripts. 

 -Jeff Vogel, the Spiderweb Software game developer returns to the SFL Archives to post on "Re: Harlan Ellison: Where to start" using his official Spiderweb Software email account.

-The person who made a career of posting about naked people on the Internet, Mr Skin, posts about the return of the GOR books and a new GOR magazine, and then later on posts a highly positive review of AMMONITE...but is disappointed that lesbianism wasn't explained or explored more in the book.

-The first casting details for STARGATE SG-1 drop, people have no comments so far.

-Jeri Ryan is announced as joining the next season of STAR TREK: VOYAGER.

-An SFLer brings up the question: "Who was/is the Youngest Published SF Author?" and name-drops Michael Moorcook as creating fanzines at age 11 and being a published professionally at age 18.

(2021 note: This is a discussion thread I hope gets picked up again on in SFL Archives Volume 22b.)

-Neal Stephenson writes a science-fiction story for Forbes Magazine called JIPI AND THE PARANOID CHIP, featuring yet another idea and concept that Neal Stephenson has stolen from the Cypherpunks CYPHERNOMICON.

(2021 note: No-one ever mentions this Neal Stephenson story when discussing Stephenson's work. For people who don't feel like looking it up, Jipi is about AI instances trained to be paranoid, then a Silicon Valley startup decides to use paranoid AI Instances as improved car alarms, then someone has the bright idea to wire explosives to the Paranoid AI car alarms, and everything gets stupider and stupider from that point. 

As I have stated previously, all of Neal Stephenson's ideas and cutting edge scenarios in his stories ultimately come from the CYPHERNOMICON FAQ. The CYPHERNOMICON is a large FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) text file listing the most common topics of discussion and bleeding edge ideas that had come up in the Cypherpunks mailing list as of September 10 1994.)

SFL Archives Vol 16a readthrough update 01

 100% completion, 151 bookmarks

-1991 is the year when both the Robert Jordan WHEEL OF TIME books and Stephen R. Donaldson's GAP CYCLE series start being discussed in the SFL Archives.

Pop culture mentions: EXXON VALDEZ, Calstate Central Cyber system(BBS?), MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000, the 1991 Gulf War/DESERT STORM 1, CNN's nonstop coverage of DESERT STORM 1, USA TODAY, JET JAGUAR, INFOCOM SOFTWARE, VMS 3.5 documentation, STAR WARS Expanded Universe, Zoetrope Studios, Ultima 5, Church of the Sub-Genius, Borders bookstores

Movies & TV series mentioned: DANCES WITH WOLVES, AKIRA, SOLARIS 1972, ICE PIRATES, DRAGON WARRIOR, ROBOCOP 2, HIGHWAY TO HEAVEN, MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000, NEVER ENDING STORY PT2, FREE-JACK, GODZILLA VS MEGALON, EDDIE AND THE CRUISERS, THE LITTLE MERMAID, ROLLERBALL, THE TRANSFORMERS, THE SEVENTH SIGN, THE PEOPLE, YOUNG INDIANA JONES, THE THIRD EYE, FRANKENSTEIN UNBOUND, KNIGHT RIDER 2000, THELMA & LOUISE, MORTAL THOUGHTS, SWITCH.

-SF&F books mentioned: ANOTHER DAY ANOTHER DUNGEON, GOLDEN FLEECE, JACOBS LADDER, EXPEDITION TO DARWIN FOUR, GAP INTO CONFLICT: THE REAL STORY,  BETWEEN DRAGONS, BY THE SWORD, THE SILVER BRANCH, CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN, MY PRETTY PONY, FANCIES AND GOODNIGHTS, DOOMSMAN, PANDORA BY HOLLY HOLLANDER, DYDEE TOWN WORLD, CHUNG KUO BOOK 1, SEERESS OF KELL, THE RUBY KNIGHT/DIAMOND THRONE, TOM BROWNS SCHOOLDAYS, PYRAMIDS, EQUAL RITES, REAPER MAN, THE DESTINY MAKERS, ECCE AND OLD EARTH, THEIR MASTERS WAR, ARMAGEDDON CRAZY, C.O.R.P.S.E., WHIPPING STAR, FRANK HERBERTS EYE, TH GREEN BRAIN, FLAG FULL OF STARS, MOONWISE, MONDAY BEGINS ON SATURDAY, WAR: 1974, RING OF CHARON, TALES OF TAORMIN, HARD TO BE A GOD, FOOL ON THE HILL, HEIR TO EMPIRE, THE PORTABLE PHONOGRAPH, SOLO COMBAT, CHERNOBYL SYNDROME, PULLING THROUGH, CHILD OF ALL AGES, NECROM, VOR, LOVES THROBBING BOB, BEYOND APOLLO, BECOMING ALIEN, BEING ALIEN, HIGHWAYS IN HIDING.

-SFL Death notices: John Bellairs, Joyce Ballou Gregorian.

-Lots of very specific requests for sub-genres of SF&F such as:

>anti-religious SF&F

>religious SF&F 

>enhanced IQ fiction

>Isaac Asimov stories about aliens

>SF about the Net(Internet)

>native non-English SF

>SF maps of planets

>gender swapping stories across movies, books, tv series

> transformation/body changing stories across movies, books, tv series

>cats in SF&F stories

>evolved humans

-Discussion of Robert Anton Wilson's co-authored ILLUMINATUS! series and the follow-up Historical Illuminati Chronicles

-Fans of Katherine Kurtz's DERYNI series going overboard and creating "Michaeline" lay orders inside SCA gatherings/outside of SCA gatherings.

-Discussion of Michael Moorcock & his ETERNAL CHAMPION stories, with SFLer's attempting to make series specific timelines.

-The Peter Cushing DOCTOR WHO tv movies, and how they differed/matched up to the tv-series version.

-News of a movie novelization of A PRINCESS OF MARS being in the works/SFLer's wondering when it come out.

(2020 note: The answer is:  Roughly 21 years later under in 2012 the title JOHN CARTER)  

-SFLer Gregory R Weiss sees extreme similarities in certain aspects of ULTIMA 5 and Stephen Donaldson's CHRONICLES OF THOMAS COVENANT.

-QUANTUM LEAP the tv-series discussion. SFLer's either loathe the premise/actors entirely or horny post about the situations Sam Beckett gets put into every new episode that allow Scott Bakula to sing/dance/show off his body.

-The first mention of people visiting HP Lovecraft's gravesite in Providence RI, and leaving offerings to him on the gravestone.

-The time when there was "a plethora of "chimpanzee stories" in various SF mags including one story containing human/chimp sex." 

-Gene Roddenberry's various attempts to get non-STAR TREK SF&F series going.

(2020 note: Lots of the plot elements and names would be recycled. GENESIS 2, Dylan Hunt, the Pax, etc.)

-Douglas Adams being iconic and various things about HITCHHIKERS GUIDE TO THE GALAXY, DIRK GENTLY, movie adaptation, failed computer games, etc.

-Trivia about what the "third button" in the BATTLESTAR GALACTICA Vipers actually did.

-A few SFLers try mapping STAR WARS 1:1 onto ARTHURIAN MYTHOS, but are already combining Arthurian Mythos roles by the 2nd sentence.

-First SFL mention of the Arkady & Boris Strugatski 1964 book HARD TO BE A GOD.

(2020 note: This book got adapted into a movie twice and a cRPG/RTS game series.) 

-A Paramount Studios grass-roots survey asking what STAR TREK 6 should contain: A new cast? The TOS series recast? A TNG movie?

-Two years after DOCTOR WHO was unofficially canceled, Doctor Who fandom starts to demand answers, and blame everyone tangentially involved with the Doctor Who series except for John Nathan-Turner.

-Discussion of Terry Pratchett's DISCWORLD books covering things like PYRAMIDS being a parody of TOM BROWNS SCHOOLDAYS, etc

-Timothy Zahn's HEIR TO EMPIRE formally makes the STAR WARS Expanded Universe series official canon.

(2020 note: The Star Wars EU stories would bounce in and out of canonity depending on how George Lucas felt every day. As per December 2020, a bunch of Star Wars EU stories are now canon again thanks to the season 2 of THE MANDALORIAN)

-More Harlan Ellison discussion. Ellison's behavior when asked to sign copies of DOOMSMAN, the long delayed Last Dangerous Visions collection, why older Harlan Ellison books are out of print, etc

-Who should be blamed for poor quality/terrible voice-acting dubs when Japanese Anime gets exported to Europe/Americas/Africa/etc: The original producers, the regional importer, or the fanbase for continuing to buy poorly translated anime?  

-The final book in David Eddings MALLOREON series comes out, and going by the reaction, 70% of the SFL had almost everything figured out. Then SFLer's started to mention how much a carbon copy Eddings new fantasy was.

-The blink and miss it "Avoid Orion Meetings" visual Easter-Egg in ROBOCOP 2.

-Editors misprinting Isaac Asimov's name early in his career leading to the various homages to "ASENION, a quasi religious philosopher" in Asimov's later books.

-More Philip K Dick discussion: Was PKD a misandrist? How mentally troubled was PKD? PKD's obsession with the Dark Haired Girl archetype. PKD's depiction of women being more driven than the lead male characters in 95% of PKD's stories. Plus PKD's literary agent returns to show what PKD novels are getting re-released.

-SCI FI channel pre-launch status update: Badly needs subscribers, might go bankrupt fast once officially launched in 1991.

-STAR WARS discussion becomes a major thing again. A few people working on their Literature PhD try making the case that Stars Wars maps 1:1 onto Arthurian legend, but are stacking combinations of Arthurian characters onto Star Wars characters by the 3 sentence of their thesis.

-SFLer Laurie Mann shows how bad author conduct/bad fan conduct during SF&F conventions gets ignored or actively covered up. Convention organizer do a combination of the "I see nothing. I hear nothing. I know NOTHING!" Corporal Schultz from the HOGANS HEROES tv-show behavior while engaging in white-washing away terrible author & fan behavior at conventions for $$$$/attendence rea$on$. 

Let me provide some context. 

SFLer Laurie Mann was heavily associated with the NEFSA fandom organization, and was the co-head of the 1988 BOSKONE(BOSKONE 25) management committee. tldr summary: Laurie Mann was deeply involved in SF&F convention management at all levels, especially the regional yearly BOSKONE convention.

Back in 1985 Isaac Asimov wrote an memorial essay for the outgoing head editor (Shawna McCarthy) at his self-titled magazine(Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine). This memorial essay was published in/written for the BOSKONE 22 year book. Shawna McCarthy had worked at IASFM as an associate executive editor for a few years under the 1st female head editor IASFM employed. Asimov's BOSKONE 22 memorial-essay about Shawna McCarthy's time at IASFM was filled with sexual harassment start to finish, bottom to top.

BOSKONE people & Isaac Asimov fanatics never mention that Asimov written BOSKONE 22 essay for the same reasons that Robert Heinlein fanatics never seem to mention Heinlein's I SHALL FEAR NO EVIL or Edgar Allen Poe scholars never publicly discuss the orangutan in THE MURDERS IN THE RUE MORGUE.

-First mention of MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000 in the SFL Archives.

 -The 1990 version of matter transportation chat goes unique places: how many copies/matter transportations can be made before irreversible cellular degradation takes place? And a really unique take about matter transportation equaling time travel.

-"Slow Glass" story discussion crops up in the SFL Archives again 11 years after the "slow glass" concept was originally discussed back in SFL Archives Vol 01

SFL Archives Vol 12a readthrough update 02

 39% completion, 40 bookmarks

-Evelyn C. Leeper posts an exhaustive POV-review of attending BOSKONE 24. Buried in this POV-review was that going forward Boskone 25 & all future Boskone conventions will be massively cutting down on the big media presentations Boskone conventions are known for in favor of emphasizing the literature, art, and fan elements of "normal SF&F conventions".

 Does the organization running Boskone have the obligation to keep the big media presentations that made earlier Boskone conventions such must-attend events?  Vs "what would smaller less professionally run conventions do given the same circumstances" discussion.

A few attendees/big media organizers of earlier Boskone conventions respond to the E. Leeper review Boskone 24 saying Boskone built up a rep doing big media presentations/many people attended Boskone solely to watch the slate of movies & tv-series that Boskone conventions air on-site.

Responses on this trickle in through at least mid-March 1987. Regardless of their stance on downsizing Boskone, or preferring professionally run conventions vs 100% volunteer conventions, everyone agrees that aa future Boskone PR releases/pre-ticket sales for BOSKONE 25 better mention the deemphasizing on big media presentations OR ELSE...fans will riot (worse than they already do partying at previous Boskone's).

-More than a few 1987 SFL Digests devoted strictly to the DERYNI series by Katherine Kurtz shows that Ursula Le Guin's underhanded attempt to gank a competitor had little long-term impact.

-SFLer's correct people who conflate the ALAN QUATERMAIN fantasy adventures & the QUATERMASS SF serials are about the same person, but just renamed for International markets. They are not.

(2020 note: I admit to being one of the people who conflated the two series (damn that almost identical name), then the SFL Archives let me know I was being an idiot.)

-Terminology discussion over SF vs SCI-FI vs SKIFFY fandom terms intensifies with multiple SFL Digests dedicated to hashing over meanings and intent and dismissive reactions fueling more splintering of SF fendom. Plus I learn a new new terms like SER-FEN, SER-CONS (Serious fans/Conventions). Some STAR TREK fans prefer being referred to as Trekkies or Trekkers or Trekists,etc. 

(2020 note: All of this terminology discussion is very passionate and has remained a running topic of discussion ever since 1987 started, and I do not see terminology discussion dying away anytime soon).

-SFLer's have an evil-genius idea of creating SF Literature course assignments dedicated to comparing Cordwainer Smith's NORSTRILIA to Frank Herbert's DUNE. 

-A 1987 SFLer is tired of computers in the DOCTOR WHO series always being bad, and wonders if it is a legacy of the tv-show being created at the peak of Cold War nuclear war fears, or if computers are a easy punching target.

-One of the weirder characters in the 1st THIEVES WORLD shared fantasy world anthology novel gets discussed by 1987 SFLer's. The many implication factors and weirdness of Lythande the cross-dressing Blue Mage, created by Marion Zimmer Bradley. SFLer's keep comparing Lythande to Red Sonja, and the many creepy implications in the backstory  Roy Thomas created for Red Sonja.

-Stovington Preparatory Academy being one of the more obscure cross-references linking late 1970's - 1980's Stephen King stories together. (2020 note: this would qualify as a good JEOPARDY final question.)  

-The first appearance of government coverups of UFO's conspiracy theories in the SFL Archives. 

(2020 note: I expected more of a reaction than what happened. Instead it was just two people parachuting into the SF-LOVERS mailing list trying to drum up interest and then bailing out when no-one globally responded to them.)

-Tanith Lee has been consistently recommended to fantasy genre fans ever since SFL Vol 01, I just never got around to mentioning her work before until some SFLer described one of her series "the flat earth series" . 

-Discussion of what is the worse Robert Heinlein story ever written. SFLer's respond with replies going across the entire gamut of Robert Heinlein's writing career.

(2020 note: Charles Stross, John Scalzi, and John Ringo, who have all written/rewritten Heinlein stories would disagree with everyone posting on this subject.)

-Death notice for Richard Sapir, co-creator of the THE DESTROYER series pulp martial arts-men's adventure novellas.

-BUSSARD RAMJETS maybe being impossible in real life, as per a  3rd hand report about a Usenet person named Gary Allen checking R.W. Bussard's original paper on the subject and finding errors in it.

-SFLer's discuss the final book in the GANDALARA CYCLE written by Randall Garrett and his wife.  (2020 note: The Gandalara Cycle was a serviceable total-ripoff of the BARSOOM/JOHN CARTER stories, however the final book shit the bed hard. Having it take place in the distant past, and the Mediterranean Sea reveal was bad, even before it went with the "we will climb out of the Mediterranean basin over generations and evolve into future homo-sapiens" ending. 

-LOOKING BACKWARD by Edward Bellamy, a 1888 futuristic utopian SF/fantasy book about what a transported through time main character discovers in the far future.  

-First mention of Terry Pratchett's DISCWORLD series in the SFL Archives, with the SFLer really enjoying EQUAL RITES, and noting that Fantasy addicts will probably enjoy the (parodic content in) COLOUR OF MAGIC & LIGHT FANTASTIC.

 -A article from the St. Louis Dispatch newspaper about the in-production movie SPACEBALLS, with a description of how a certain scene is being shot and a brief interview with Mel Brooks about Spaceballs. 

-KNIGHT LIFE by Peter David, a reimagining of the Arthurian Mythos taking place in the 1980's, with all the expected Arthurian Mythos betrayals/drama/etc.  

-The HORSECLAN series is brought up by SFLer Bruce. Says that the Horseclan series is readable fun SF, but then mentions tackiness levels similar to GOR, before going on to mention the flashback within a flashback within a flashback with a flashback the author uses to pad out the word count of sequels.

-Roger Zelazny fans note the DAMNATION ALLEY movie adaptation as being why Zelazny stopped selling the movie rights to his work. 

-A rare mention of German language SF&F. Wolfgang Hohlbein and their DER STEIN DER MACHT series. 

-Dean Koontz used to be known for writing SF stories, 1986-1987 marks Koontz's shift into suspense-horror stories.

 -Review of a new DISNEYLAND park ride called STAR TOURS, which takes guests on a STAR WARS tour to the planet Endor. (2020 note: The review contains things that are mostly of interest to amusement Park ride fans, and amateur Disney Kingdom historians.)

-A director, production company, and a few actors are signed up for an movie adaptation of George RR Martin's NIGHTFLYERS novella.

SFL Archives Vol 09 readthrough update 01

 SFL Vol 09 started off poorly.

-The first real message of 1984 was about David Eddings latest BELEGARIAD book being delayed. Then Vol 09 Digest 02 started off with Marion Zimmer Bradley recommendations. If only the SFL posters from 1984 knew what is now known about Eddings & MZB. Hoping for minimal MZB & Eddings discussion in the rest of SFL Vol 09, in fact I would gladly read 3 solid months of only filk-song chat and filk-song lyrics posting if MZB & Eddings never came up again in SFL Vol 09. 

V the 1980's tv-series making zero sense on multiple levels caused much SFL discussion

-STAR TREK 3 came out and and also caused much SFL discussion

-Lots and lots of discussion-arguments about "time travel for profit" using banks/investing/trade.

-Someone reposted all the Hitchhikers Guide to the Net parody/homage series and hate filled my soul.

-Marion Zimmer Bradley chat cropped up repeatedly along with filk chat and more "old time religion" filk-song series. Hate continued to rise.

-The SFL archives version of BravestOfTheLamps is Jeff Duntemann on a never ending quest to determine what SFF stories/what SFF authors are of literary merit

-BackStabMod reappeared in the SFL archives as a "normal" poster after less than 2 months of being "off the ARPANET" forever. Still going to call them BackStabMod forever though, just like DolphinF**ker will forever be called DolphinF**ker

-A whole lot of SFLers are doing "my non-online friend says: CONTROVERSIAL TAKE" posting

-Dean Ing gets mentioned for the first time in the SFL archives. Dean Ing was/is a batshit crazy mil-scifi survivalist author obsessed with airplanes, cowboys, technology, the old west, and the sex life of boars.

-Terry Pratchett gets mentioned for the first time in the SFL archives as well, regarding huge scale "built world" story recommendations, which definitely applies to Terry Pratchett's STRATA.

-a Tekumel RPG/Empire of the Petal Throne RPG novel gets pimped/reviewed/counter-reviewed.

-many people ask for Libertarian fiction recommendations, resulting in multiple Libertarian fiction recs, which I won't inflict on this thread other than saying 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999919999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999993999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 of the Libertarian stories mentioned in the replies are exactly as stupid and trite as Shakespearean plays.

-William Gibson's NEUROMANCER came out, and most of the SFL likes it. Personal opinion: Worse thing in Neuromancer is the character archetypes, which Gibson will reuse and reuse until you are sick of them.

-Scifi magazine/book cover-art chat devolves-evolves into Queen the Band discussion/Day the Earth Stood Still/cover artist chat, which purged about 80% of the hatred in my soul from the earlier mentioned MZB chat & filk-song lyric posts.

-Lauren Weinstein takes some lithium/finally calms the fuck down about WARGAMES 1983 enough to promise IMDB style episode summaries of the Outer Limits tv-show

originally posted August 1st - August 8th in the SomethingAwful forums Science Fiction Fantasy Megathread 3