SFL Archives Vol 17a readthrough update 01

 148 bookmarks, 100% completion

-Movies & tv-series mentioned: THE LAWNMOWER MAN, RONNIE ROCKET, MANN & MACHINE, ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW, ALIEN 3, GODZILLA, QUANTUM LEAP, COOL WORLD, YOUNG INDIANA JONES CHRONICLES, SWAMP THING (TV), GREATEST AMERICAN HERO, SEARCH, QUEST FOR LOVE, IT HAPPENED HERE, PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT, THE LAWNMOWER MAN, IN LIVING COLOR, RADIOACTIVE DREAMS, FREEJACK, RED DWARF, GOLDEN YEARS, MOTHER GOOSE AND GRIMM, BIG BLUE, SLIPSTREAM, HARDWARE, OMEGA MAN, SOYLENT GREEN, THE FLASH (TV), THE JERK (play), TIME TRAX, HIGHLANDER 2, UNTIL THE END OF THE WORLD, NIGHTMARE CAFE, FROG BASEBALL, BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES, CHEERS, DANGER ISLAND, KNIGHTRIDER 2010, THE DOORS, RUNNING DELILAH, TWILIGHT OF THE COCKROACHES, KINVIG, FOREVER KNIGHT, VOYAGERS, SPACEBALLS, PIRATES OF DARK WATERS, DARKWING DUCK, SPACE CATS, ROC,

-Book mentions: NIGHTTHREADS, NIGHT LIFE OF THE GODS, PHULES PARADISE, ASH OCK, HE SHE IT, SUGAR RAIN, ILLEGAL ALIENS, BUREAU 13, CHONG KO, MUTANT STAR, JACK THE BODILESS, PROSPEROS BOOKS,LEGAL DAISY SPACING, RANSOM OF BLACK STEALTH ONE, THE SANDMAN (comic), TOO MANY MAGICIANS, ORBITAL RESONANCE, THE QUICK, BEANWORLD (comic), DARK TOWER, FIRE SEA, DUNCTION CHRONICLES, CANTORS DILEMMA, WANDERING STARS: AN ANTHOLOGY OF JEWISH SF&F, A FIRE UPON THE DEEP, ALIEN SEX, CYBERNETIC JUNGLE, LOMOKOME PAPERS, THE HUMANOIDS, THE BLACK SUN, JURASSIC PARK,

-Pop Culture references: teenage Valley slang, Xgopher (early internet searching tool), Powells Books (Portland OR), Werner Ehardt's EST training, PUNCH magazine, magic debunker James Zwinge aka the Amazing Randi, E Entertainment, Arsenio Hall show, "Samantha Fox (the pornstar, not the singer)", Michael Jackson music videos, Captain America 1990, 1988 Copyright Designs and Patent Act,

-SF-LOVERS mailing list moves to new server hardware GANDALF.RUTGERS.EDU, a Sun 670MP server.

-Oddly specific requests:

>scifi stories "that are actually about the social process of doing science, as opposed to engineering or psuedo-scientific magic/mysticism"

>incredibly BAD SF books 

>Fairy tales

>SF radio shows

>Nordic Mythos

>reproductive biology and social systems

>stories dealing in and with Shamanism

>fantasy stories based on Irish/Celtic myth

>movies and tv-series that Industrial Light & Magic worked on

>Best virtual reality stories

>SF authors in SF novels

-SFL Death notices: Author Isaac Asimov, SF&F convention organizer Terry Biffel, actor John-Eric Hexum.

-COOL WORLD movie & comic series discussion.

-SFAN: Space, Fantasy & Adventure Network tries to drum up support as an alternative to the upcoming SciFi Channel cable network...only the SFAN slate of offerings is very Star Trek/Star Trek actor focused and does not have any else to offer outside of Star Trek.

-Dan O'Bannon having a really hard time remembering to attribute other authors/influences in his work, especially if it's AE Van Vogt.

-A list of the the 5 largest Cable Multisystem Operators

(2021 note: This is of archival interest for pop-culture historians).

-How Joseph Green, a SF&F super-fan leveraged an author-facetime interview with Frederick Pohl for tips on how to get published in SF&F magazines. Frederick Pohl used Joseph Green's story to kick off the IF First Story series in IF Magazine.

(2021 note: One of the biggest benefactors of the IF First Story series was Larry Niven.)

-1991 SFL Archives April Fool joke: A database, available cia CD-ROM, able to procedurally generate SF&F stories based on 10000 hard coded plot elements & SF&F author writing sample. 

-A FIRE UPON THE DEEP comes out and SFLer's like the Futuristic USENET in it, along with the callback/call-forward to the Vinge short story THE BLABBER.

-More details of Raymond Feist and David Brin contributing to the same group D&D sessions/using material from their shared D&D sessions.

-SFLer's recall Ridley Scott's pre-movie director career/

-First appearance of Mike Judge in the SFL Archives thanks to FROG BASEBALL.

(2021 note: FROG BASEBALL was the premiere appearance of BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD).

-As of 1991, Glen Cook's last DREAD EMPIRE book selling only 6000 copies, dooming the chances of any sequels for that series.

-CMU pimps out their Science Fiction & Fantasy collection library.

-Someone mentions the Robert Silverberg mashup novella involving hell, HP Lovecraft & Robert Howard which Harry Harrison parodied in a BILL THE GALACTIC HERO sequel.

-The weirdness of Thomas Disch's lost off-broadway play about Ben-Hur and the US Civil War General Lew Wallace.

-Mail order book publisher Dime Books being investigated for mail fraud and ponzi schemes in at least 4 states.

-The first teaser information for the animated DC Comics tv series that would become BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES comes out. SFLer reaction is muted, the art design is unlike anything previously seen.

-Someone digs up an old Robert Heinlein quote about never rewriting any of his work. The Heinlein Defense Squad tries to deny this until other SFLer's pull up exact quotes/interviews of Robert Heinlein saying exactly that.

-SF radio shows discussion brings up the ZBS Foundation which specialized in unique SF style radio dramas involving cyborgs, cyberpunk, etc.

-SFLers want other SFLers to know that Elizabeth Moon is a ex-marine and knows how to write military stuff.

-More David Eddings Mallorean discussion, and one SFLer wonders why the same author bio text is never updated in any of Eddings 12+ published books.

-A few SFLer's try making the case that Corwin in the AMBER series is a Nazi...because he hazily remembered marching towards Moscow.

The "incredibly BAD SF books" discussion brings up the AYES OF TEXAS series along with with more even worse than the Ayes of Texas SF gems.

-Lots of skeptical discussion of upcoming 1992 tv series MANN & MACHINE that changes to vast investment in the series once it airs.

(2021 note: The setting and plot elements of MANN & MACHINE heavily remind me of the 2013 tv series ALMOST HUMAN beat for beat.)

-Church of the SUB GENIUS novels, and callouts to the Church of Sub Genius in various SF&F stories

-GODZILLA movie discussion. Lists of Godzilla films, lists of Godzilla enemies, lists of actors in Godzilla films, little known facts about the Godzilla films/behind the scenes production details/trivia about how some actors were hired just for their cars, etc.

-Commentary on Mark Hamill's acting career and acting abilities. Some like Hamill's acting choices, others absolutely loathe Hamill.

-One SFLer makes the argument about too much carnography aka torture-porn being the trend in current SF&F stories.

-Babylon 5 officially announced, and discussion of the series setting kicks off.

-SFLer's start discussing the many many many SF&F series based on Irish/Celtic mythos, after someone clues into Julian May re-using Derry Air aka Londonberry Air aka Danny Boy in her SF&F books.

-The ethics of buying used books.

-WHEEL OF TIME series discussion kicks off. A few SFLers are confused/angry that the WoT series is suddenly getting extended past 3 books into 7 books. Lots of interesting WoT character/plot discussion happens that I'm not going to bother recapping here.

-Even the most hardcore WILD CARD series fans can't deny the past few Wild Cards books have sucked, and tripled down on sex, bdsm and tortureporn elements.

-QUANTUM LEAP hits season 4 in the USA & season 2 in the UK causing a confusing medley of Quantum Leap posts that makes a reader from 2021 (me) extremely confused just like Sam Beckett.

-MANN & MAN has lots of male SFLer's commenting on Yancy Butler's looks. A certain segment of  SFLer's equate any female supporting actress presence in a tv-series or movie = bimbo wearing revealing clothing...This behavior hits a new low when SFLer Tom O'Connell calls Vasquez from ALIENS 1986  "the plump bimbo"

tomo@kpc.com (Tom O'Connell) writes:

>When the plump bimbo in Aliens grits her teeth and presses the button on

>the grenade with the other weak character (not just weak in the movie) do

>I care? No, it's just another Rambo character with a hormone problem

>giving the special effects people a chance to blow something up.

-Neal Stephenson's cyberpunk novel SNOW CRASH comes out and longtime fans of cyberpunk fiction find it gibberish try-hard trash.

-Terrible fan conduct at SF&F conventions 1992 edition. Plus tons of "Shit that didn't Happen" aka "and then everyone clapped" style stories of SF&F fandom owning normal people at SF&F conventions.

-First mention of mil-scifi author David Weber in the SFL Archives, and mild discussion of David Weber's writing & stories.

(2021 note: tldr version is that Weber's writing style had the strengths and weaknesses at the very beginning of his professional writing career to the latest published David Weber novel as 2019/2021.) 

-Extremely heaving ALIEN 3 discussion. Most SFLers did not like Alien 3 and are confused by Bishop 2, IRL actors aging out of roles, why the Xenomorph has 4 legs, and most importantly, how/why/when/where did Ripley get implanted with that Queen Xenomorph embryo.

-Cornbread being the true link between ALIEN 1979,  ALIENS 1986, & ALIEN 3.

SFL Archives Vol 12b readthrough update 03

 100% completion, 92 bookmarks.

-1987 technology level: How booksellers were able to determine what books were in print/what new titles were coming out before the Internet existed, a phonebook sized catalog released every 6 months named BOOKS IN PRINT.

-1987 technology level: a dismissive SPACE HARRIER arcade game reference, also the first mention of arcade games since the constant PAC-MAN puns back in 1980/1981 .

-The first appearance of "Trelane is Q" regarding STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION in SFL Archives history. There will be more statements and reworkings of this initial post.

-SIGN OF CHAOS discussion kicks off. Motivations of Dara, Jurt, Luke, etc. Merlin being extremely dim aka Roger Zelazny's series planning/lack of series planning, etc.

-STAR TREK chat: TransWarp. Why doesn't the Enterprise wrap everything in Vernor Vinge stasis-field bubbles/bobbles? SFLer's that have only read Larry Niven KNOWN SPACE stories and understand only the Nivenian take on stasis technology start to finally interact with SFLers that have read Vernor Vinge stories/ understand the Vingian bobbles/stasis fields.

-Western business have been increasingly importing (translated) Japanese business books (Kaizen and popular fiction in an attempt to replicate the dominance Japan automotive companies have shown vs Western automotive companies. KAIZEN & THE BOOK OF FIVE RINGS are mentioned.

-The PRINCESS BRIDE movie comes out, the movie adaptation of George RR Martin's THE NIGHTFLYERS comes out, the MAX HEADROOM tv series gets cancelled after two seasons of poor ratings (ironic),  and the now vastly forgotten BEAUTY AND THE BEAST tv series starring Linda Hamilton & Ron Perlman airs in the fall of 1987.

-THE HIDDEN 1987 movie comes out and lots of SFLer's notice the similarities in it to Hal Clement's Needle series about 2 alien life-forms coming to Earth/living inside bodies/1 of alien lifeforms being evil, and the other alien lifeform being a intergalactic cop hunting them down.

(2020 note: THE HIDDEN 1987 movie aged pretty well.) 

-A few SFLer's are confused by the concept of SPACE ELEVATORS in David Brin's SUNDIVER novel. 

(2020 note: To be fair, space elevators are a rare geeky subject in 2020, especially so circa 1987.)

-The Winter 1987 version of now forgotten weird SF&F themed tv-shows: CAPTAIN POWER the lightgun focused tv series, the Andy Griffith SALVAGE 1 tv-show comes up again, HERCULOIDS, TEEN FORCE, OTHERWORLD, THUNDARR, THE PEOPLE, SHAZAM!, BATMAN AND THE SUPER SEVEN, CLIFFHANGERS, etc.

-One of the first mentions of M John Harrison in the SFL Archives. The VIRICONIUM series and THE CENTAURI DEVICE are discussed. First mention of Brian Herbert(son of Frank Herbert) and his GARBAGE CHRONICLES series

-SPACE EATER (David Langford), DOOMSDAY EFFECT (Thomas Wren), REINDEER MOON (Elisabeth Marshall Thomas),  Change War stories by Fritz Leiber, WORD-BRINGER (Edward Llewellyn), EC Tubb's DUMAREST SAGA, IT: THE TERROR BEYOND SPACE movie, TRAVELLERS REST (David J Mason), URTH OF THE NEW SUN/EMPIRES OF FOLIAGE AND FLOWER (Gene Wolfe).

-SFLer's debate future policing methods of the 2030's in fiction and what they think will happen IRL and the IRL predictions are so far off the target from a 2020 viewpoint it is painful to even mention.

-Upcoming Convention notices in the SFL Archives break out of the moratorium they have been under since 1983. This leads to the first standalone posting of the NECRONOMICON convention in the SFL Archives.

-MORIGU: THE DESECRATION illustrates the differences of opinions SFLer's have on books. One SFLer loves it and recommends it to others because the dwarven behavior in it is such a amusing loutish contrast to the uptight Elves also in it. Another SFLer found it dark and brooding and filled with way too much blood, gore and hyper-violence to enjoy MORIGU or bother reading any sequels to it.

-First mention of a Net interview occurring with crowd-sourced questions for the interviewee in the SFL Archives. Vonda McIntyre is the interviewee and the SFLer requesting unique questions lays out the now standard ground rules of "don't be an asshole/don't doxx their personal life/don't be sexist". 

-A slight uptick in why F&SF books get published over others leads to mentions of Judy-Lynn Del Rey's (rip) efforts to get some older iconic fantasy and science fiction stories republished, which lead to SFLer Chuq Von Rospach establishing themselves as the 1987 SFLer who knows everything book publisher/author/SFWA related.

-I find myself agreeing with Mark R. Leeper on certain books/movies (LIFEFORCE). Turns out that Evelyn & Mark Leeper are capable of delivering good critiques and reviews on things F&SF related, if they take the time to do so. Unfortunately, Evelyn & Mark Leeper prefer posting extremely rushed "First Impression" 60 second reviews of everything Fantasy & Science Fiction they come across. 

-Vampire stories/Dracula focused stories suddenly becomes a thing for 3 or 4 dedicated SFL Digests. Dracula backstory/future history after resurrecting, with Anne Rice's LESTAT series and her earlier under a pen-name vampire stories coming up.

-A SFLer wants to know the rules to the PYRAMIDS poker game variant in the BATTLESTAR GALACTICA 1978 tv-series. 

-SFLer Tim Iverson establishes themselves as the SFLer willing to throw down 24/7/366 over William Gibson/NEUROMANCER criticism.

-Raymond Feist RIFTWAR series discussion. Feist has come up a few times before but nothing serious that lasted beyond 2 posts until now. Raymond Feist writing his novels for audiences pre-conditioned to understand the references and monsters that Feist brings up, but never describe in detail. Feist's RIFTWAR series being based on a real RPG setting, with Feist working at a few RPG development companies while planning out/writing the RIFTWAR books.

-7th Doctor DOCTOR WHO series feedback trickles in as 1987 closes out. SFLer's who post about the 7th Doctor episodes really cannot stand Bonnie Langford, with the final Doctor Who related post in SFL Vol 12b being about a new female Companion called Ace replacing Bonnie Langford. 

-The 2nd thrugh 5th episodes of STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION come out in the fall/winter of 1987. SFLer's initial to the 2nd episode are still mostly complaints/nitpickings, with mild hopes Q was/is a one-off character. Proto-Incels start referring to Troi as BETAMAX. Mild complaints about Data and Wesley being over-powered in the 2nd episode. Hating on Tasha Yar tapers off,  SFler's note Troi not really having a function on the bridge. The infamous flower-hippies episode airs, and then the mildly racist Ferengi episode, then the creepy Traveller -that-has-grooming-plans-for-Wesley airs. By the time the 5th TNG episode airs gradual acceptance of most of the TNG cast except for Wesley Crusher has sent in. A vocal subset of the SFLer's who watch ST: TNG start  theory-crafting ways Wesley Crusher could be killed/aged up and sent to StarFleet Academy ASAP, etc.  

-A SFLer reposts an infamous circa 1987 open-letter to Gene Roddenberry about STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION and the canned response it got.

------------------------------

Date: Fri,  6 Nov 87  11:56:59 EST

From: NCC1701%UMASS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu

Subject: The letter...

                                                Linda Peterson

Mr. Gene Roddenberry

"Star Trek"

ABC

Dear Sir:

  Although I am not a confirmed "Trekie", I looked forward to the

new Star Trek television series.  My overwhelming disappointment

caused me to write this letter.

  My concerns:

       Do you really believe in white male supremacy?  Surely the

       future will be more equitable - such as...

          An "Asian type" captain (we are outnumbered now by Asian

          peoples).  Also, baldness in the future?  I doubt it.

          Jonathan Frakes just does not have the face of a strong,

          aggressive "Number One" - perhaps a Latino, or a Jimmy

          Smits type.

          Do you really see "Miss Emotion" going into battle in a

          mini-skirt?!  The costumes in general lack imagination.

          Mr. Data looks like PeeWee Herman with his off-white skin

          and slicked back hair.  All the hairstyles seem to some

          from yuppie America.

          Do we really need another TV show with the young wiz-kid,

          who will obviously save the day.  Heck, why not add Lassie

          to the cast.

  Yes, the show did have some strong points.  The storyline fit the

mold.  The Klingon and "Blind" crew member are interesting.  Surely

the show will progress.  Maybe there will be an accident and some of

the crew will have to be replaced.  I won't change the channel yet.

  Thanks for listenning.

                                   Sincerely,

                                   /s/ Linda Peterson

10/5/87

------------------------------

Date: Fri,  6 Nov 87  11:57:40 EST

From: NCC1701%UMASS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu

Subject: The Reply...

Paramount Pictures Corporation

October 27, 1987

Ms. Linda Peterson

Dear Ms. Peterson,

Thank you for your recent letter to Gene Roddenberry.  Although his

schedule doesn't permit him to respond to you personally, he has

taken the time to read your comments.  He is glad you felt strongly

enough about STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION to let him know your

thoughts about it.

Many of the suggestions we received in letters such as yours have

merit and may influence future episodes.  We hope you will continue

to watch STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION to see these developements.

Sincerely,

/s/Susan Sackett

Susan Sackett

Assistant to Gene Roddenberry

SS:akd

------------------------------

SFL Archives Vol 11 readthrough update 03

 SFL Archives Vol 11: 25% completion, 78 bookmarks (more than a few bookmarks were redundant and got cleaned up)

-The reason why Alexei Panshin had a decades long break getting stories published becomes clearer. (Panshin apparently signed a multi-book contract for the advance money, Panshin then tried to weasel out of the book contract commitment by submitting stories *co-authored* with his wife...publishers did not react well to shenanigans they normally pulled on authors happening to them)

-One shot SF&F authors of the 1980's get discussed and a few of them/their stories sound interesting (Hilbert Schenck, Barrington Bayley, Denis Johnson, John Sladek, etc)

-COSMOS, a 17 chapter SF round-robin "write your way out of this" serial written almost exclusively by future SF editors/authors inside the 1933 fanzine SCIENCE FICTION DIGEST 

-Some SFLers have devolved into posting lists of books and author bibliographies in response to other SFLers making 1000+ word essay-posts

-SFLers start asking what deeper meaning Ridley Scott intended by costuming Tim Curry in gallons of red paint, a foam bodybuilder suit and fake horns in the 1985 movie LEGEND. (2020 take: Ridley Scott putting 97% of his effort on the visuals of a film & 1% effort on the movie script never gets hypothesized by 1986 SFLers)

-Vernor Vinge's PEACE WAR comes up, and how the bobbles (aka stasis field technology) in PEACE WAR could be used IRL across multiple fields like construction, civilian, military, space exploration, etc.

-Philip Jose Farmer's unauthorized vulturing of other SF&F authors work gets mentioned multiple times, re the PJF authored VENUS ON A HALF-SHELL and the PJF authored Necronomicon

-SFLers note that Jack Chalker's stories all seeming to have involuntary species + gender swaps for main characters and the subsequent kinky sex that happens due to species/gender changes makes me very happy I have only read one of Jack Chalker's stories (it was notable for the extreme speed of the plot movement vs modern fantasy books) and nothing more. 

-Diane Duane's STAR TREK novels get brought up and fans of Diane Duane/fans of STAR TREK fiction might find things of note being discussed that I haven't 

-More SFLer's discover Michael Moorcock and the ETERNAL CHAMPION stories, which [sarcasm mode]Robert Heinlein definitely did not rip off for his Number of the Beast book[/sarcasm mode].

-The SF-LOVERS t-shirt project gets relaunched with a cluttered seeming graphic design (two interstellar aliens reading SF-LOVERS on a terminal with a scarier interstellar alien creeping up behind the reader aliens)

-An SFLer on the hunt for unique for PhD thesis material asks "What is the etymology behind "filksongs/fens/fen?" (2020: I will 110% be skipping all further posts regarding this subject)

-Steven Brust regains ARPANET acess and happily continues posting to the SF-LOVERS mailing list, to my utter non-delight as a avid non-fan of SKZB

-Lots and lots of LORD OF THE RINGS/Tolkien lore chat: Is Gandalf one of the Maia, why didn't Gandalf instantly ace the door-lock "say friend" test trying to get into Moria, was Legolas a backwoods (giggle) uneducated elf-hick or was Legolas just not willing to embarrass Gandalf about elf-language in front of the mortals? (2020 note: I can't remember how many supplemental LoTR books Christopher Tolkien had published up to this point in 1986. Also, RIP Christopher Tolkien)

-Funny SF stories requests. Henry Kuttner gets recommended a bunch, especially Kuttner's "drunk inventor-genius" stories. Spider Robinson's work gets recommended too (2020 take: Spider Robinson is a trap. Do Not Read. DO NOT READ.) BILL THE GALACTIC HERO gets recommended (2020 take: Bill the Galactic Hero IS NOT a trap read.)

- HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy's Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster fan recipes and anecdotes of drinking those fan recipes.

-The 1980's reboot of the TWILIGHT ZONE series viability is in doubt, and a doomed Save the Twilight Zone fan-campaign gets started.

-Locus Magazine mentions that Robert Aspirin has signed a multi-book deal for more MYTH stories (2020 take: Aspirin would pull a Panshin 2.0 move, only in Aspirin's case it was (mostly) IRS back-taxes related).

-A SFLer pitches a survey dedicated to filksong *cannonical collections of 'whimsically' regular words* and I promise to skip over any future posts on this just as much as posts about etymology of filksongs/fen/fens

-An PLAYBOY short story article called "TIME IS MONEY" gets brought up and discussed. (2020 take: doing a moderate reworking of that idea circa 2020 might win you the 2020/2021 PROMETHEUS AWARD aka the Hugo Award for Libertarians)

-1985 movie THE STUFF gets brought up again and from a 2020 standpoint it sounds more surrealistic than 1983 movie LIQUID SKY.

-CODEX SERAPHINIANUS gets brought up a few times. Knowing nothing about it  and refusing to google it, the CODEX SERAPHINIANUS sounds alot like the VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

-Harlan Ellison and Ben Bova suing broadcast television networks & the producers of TERMINATOR 1 over stolen pitched-to-Hollywood ideas to get some sweet sweet settlement money comes up again. 

-A few SFLer's get around to watching Akira Kurosawa's HIDDEN FORTRESS and start noticing similarities/homages/outright scene reenactments of it that George Lucas did in STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE

-the AYES OF TEXAS get reviewed by Mark Leeper, and *even Mark Leeper, master of surface level oblivious reviews* picks up on the TEXAS slant in it.

SFL Archives Vol 03 readthrough update 02

 In my recaps of reading the SFL archives, I tend to not mention: outdated science/physics chat, FTL travel vs STL chat, scifi tv series episode listings, topical scifi/fantasy movie reviews or topical scifi/fantasy book reviews, identify-this story for me requests, childrens tv programming of the 50's/60's/70's chat, religion debates, Hugo/Nebula award nominations + award winners chat, "what is the Force" debates?, and the many listings of upcoming global scifi conventions/results of just finished global scifi conventions.

-Vernor Vinge's age of cyberspace TRUE NAMES came out and was reviewed favorably by most SFL members. Douglas Adams 1st & 2nd HITCHHIKERS GUIDE TO THE GALAXY series books were released in the US, and had less favorable reviews. No one has really discussed Gene Wolfe's 1981 CLAW OF THE CONCILIATOR or 1980 BOOK OF THE NEW SUN so far, but things might change.

-Back in 1981, Lucas Films and NPR collaborated to make a radio drama out of STAR WARS: A New Hope the movie with Mark Hamill (which maybe kickstarted Hamill's prolific voice-acting career) & Anthony Daniels (C3PO), plus a bunch of ringers. As a moderate Star Wars fan, the existence of the 1981 Star Wars radio drama, and spoiler alert the existence of the other original SW trilogy radio dramas got memory-holed harder than David Proust, the body-actor of Darth Vader

-A profile of Ralph Bakshi, 1970s-80s cartoonist I mostly remember for the unsettling-blobby artwork in Bakshi's Lord of the Rings movies. Bakshi promoted his other animation efforts, including a movie about black America called....uh even posting the movie name will end in a probe so just look it up yourself or if that's too much effort, think of the "badly aged Eric Cartman super-hero persona" and uh make it more racist.

e: I was remembering the unsettling and blobbly artwork from Rankin/Bass animatted movie efforts like the HOBBIT 1977, not Bakshi's work.

-Larry Niven's DOWN IN FLAMES, the 1968/1977 unofficial abandoned conclusion to the Known Space/Ringworld series finally got described in detail Everything you know about the Known Space setting is a hoax. Down in Flames discussion was interesting enough that I read it myself, and no bullshit it is better than everything Niven proceeded to write about the Ringworld and Known Space setting for the next 8 books.

If you do choose to see Down in Flames as Known Space/Ringworld canon, you can safely abandon the Ringworld series after the 1st Ringworld book aka Ringworld 1970, while the remaining Known Space stories written after 1978 sort-of fit if you don't think too hard about timedates. 

-biology chat becomes the running topic of the fortnight, with DNA encoding, scifi stories about DNA encoding, goats=unicorns (which I will come back to), etc

-MENSA membership gets pimped in the SFL for the first time I can remember. The MENSA membership ad gets a faint sneery tone when mentioning alternate methods of qualifying for MENSA membership (combined SAT results or combined GRE results over certain scores will get you in under limited membership status)

-DolphinF**cker is against proposals for "permanent" assignation of phone numbers to people, for *wink* privacy reasons. *wink*

-the SFL liveposted the first manned Space Shuttle launch attempt on April 10 1981. Keyword being: attempt.

-A reposted article from the Baltimore Sun newspaper brings the 1st mention of space borne telescopes into the SFL archives. These space borne telescopes (due to be launched in 1985) will have sensors/cameras that might be able to detect extrasolar planets. 

(2020 sidenote: those extrasolar planet detecting methods mentioned in the article are still being fine-tuned today/2020 time period.)

-SPECIES movie fans will find Fred Hoyle's 1975 novel A FOR ANDROMEDA uses an eerily similar setup, but Hoyle's book series fails to implement H.R. Giger and instead goes with a deep-state conspiracy.

-the goats=unicorns thing.

Someone I didn't bother bookmarking posted about recent studies of medieval documents/myth had lead to scholars thinking that references to unicorn were really references to one-horned goats. Chapman.ES promotes his friend from the Berkeley area named Morning Glory who showed off a unicorn-goat named Lancelot at the February 1981 Berkeley Fantasy Worlds Convention. When asked about Lancelot the goat-unicorn, Chapman.ES said that Morning Glory and her husband mentioned a careful breeding plan that two years ago resulted in Lancelot. Additionally......something akin to Bonsai helped out, but Morning Glory couldn't go into more details because they were trying to patent the process.

(emphasis mine)

People replied back to Chapman.ES mentioning common farm practices of de-horning livestock. And then other people ran with that and suggested maybe two goat horns got fused together in Lancelot's case, or maybe shortly after birth, one horn got removed totally with the other horn bud moved/shifted over. Chapman.ES flipped the fuck out and went full "I take exception to your slur upon Morning Glory and her husband, and your suggestion that they are charlatans. These are sincere people, who are into mysticism, it is true, but just because you don't agree with their world view doesn't mean you have to insult them."....and so on for another 70-90 lines.

-Didn't think I'd find something to top Bakshi's hyper badly aged 'black america in the south' animated movie within less than 24 hrs, however someone in the SFL mentioned that H Beam Piper's LITTLE FUZZY was ripping off a earlier story.....and they weren't making things up.

A semi-famous World War 2 french resistance member slash author wrote "LES ANIMAUX DENATURES" or "YOU SHALL KNOW THEM" in it's english language translation.

story recap: tribes of "missing link" hominids are found in the jungles of new guinea, and exploited as an cheap workforce similar to "war with the newts". Scientist-perverts or just normal perverts discover that the missing link hominids <ugh> can get pregnant with <ugh> human sperm <quadruple ugh>. One of the scientist-perverts impregnates a missing link hominid with his sperm then kills the baby once it is born; under the reasoning that the ensuing trial will determine if the missing link hominids are human (and therefore deserve human rights) or not.

Adding to the weirdness/wtf factor, a Burt Reynolds movie called SKULLDUGGERY is a loose adaption of "les animaux denatures". 

originally posted between July 1st- July 3rd in the SomethingAwful forums Science Fiction Fantasy Megathread 3